Differences between "old time" preachers and modern preachers

[heartstrings]

Ephesians4: 11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Have you ever had anyone say something hateful to or about you that you KNEW was NOT true? Did something like that ever make you mad? Suppose I made up some lie about you; something really libelous, then published it in your local newspaper. Would youi sue me? I've heard men say "the only reason it made you mad, was becaus it was true". Oh really?

Anyone can stand up with an antagonistic spirit and offend people. I've heard a man, time and time again, act like he had another feather in his cap as he bragged about someone leaving the church cause they couldn't take his preaching. or how he had straightened someone else out doctrinally. Heard the same man make racial slurs and even racial jokes from the pulpit. Heard him 'preach' that "blacks were ordained to be slaves". I've heard a pentacostal vehemently tell his people in a hard aggressive manner that if they didn't get saved AGAIN they were going to Hell. Then people praise that kind of junk and call it the word of God. It was hard and forceful alright, and it made people mad, but do you reckon the Holy Ghost had anything to do with it? Brother Steven spoke the truth and it made folks mad enough to stone him to death, not because it simply insulted them, but because it exposed their wicked hearts.....But Steven didn't preach with a haughty, proud, sarcastic spirit either. Since he was full of the Holy Ghost, I don't believe he stiffened up his neck or strutted around, or smirked or told jokes: I just believe Steven spoke the truth in love

Edited June 10, 2011 by heartstrings

[John81]

I have been reading "The Absolute Unlawfulness of Stage Entertainments" by William Law. This book was written in 1765, but is needed in this age even more, I believe! William Law states in his opening paragraph "I am sensible that the title of this little book will, to the generality of people, seem too high a flight; that it will be looked upon as the effect of a fanatical spirit, carrying matters higher than the sobriety of religion requires." It struck me that even 250 years ago, faithful men of God were having to apologize for speaking firmly about the truths of holiness and the dangers of dabbling with sin.

Earlier this year I read some short biographies of preachers ranging from about the 1500s into the 1900s. I was struck by a common theme which stalwarts of the faith declare today and is akin to what William Law faced. In standing firm upon the Word of God, these men were looked down upon by the liberal and worldly Christians of their day just as is the case today.

After reading those biographies and then reading through the epistle it was evident that this has been going on since the beginning. Paul warned of those who would come in behind him teaching false doctrines. John spoke of those setting self above the things of God. Even in the Old Testament we read of faithful prophets having to contend with false prophets.

We today are engaged in a battle that has a very long history.

[John81]

Ephesians4: 11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Have you ever had anyone say something hateful to or about you that you KNEW was NOT true? Did something like that ever make you mad? Suppose I made up some lie about you; something really libelous, then published it in your local newspaper. Would youi sue me? I've heard men say "the only reason it made you mad, was becaus it was true". Oh really?

Anyone can stand up with an antagonistic spirit and offend people. I've heard a man, time and time again, act like he had another feather in his cap as he bragged about someone leaving the church cause they couldn't take his preaching. or how he had straightened someone else out doctrinally. Heard the same man make racial slurs and even racial jokes from the pulpit. Heard him 'preach' that "blacks were ordained to be slaves". I've heard a pentacostal vehemently tell his people in a hard aggressive manner that if they didn't get saved AGAIN they were going to Hell. Then people praise that kind of junk and call it the word of God. It was hard and forceful alright, and it made people mad, but do you reckon the Holy Ghost had anything to do with it? Brother Steven spoke the truth and it made folks mad enough to stone him to death, not because it simply insulted them, but because it exposed their wicked hearts.....But Steven didn't preach with a haughty, proud, sarcastic spirit either. Since he was full of the Holy Ghost, I don't believe he stiffened up his neck or strutted around, or smirked or told jokes: I just believe Steven spoke the truth in love

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread, but...

Certainly I've known of self-centered preachers who would boast of their worldly approach to things while declaring they are separated from and fighting the world. It's not common, easy or popular to obey the Word and die to self. I've heard preachers brag about having intimidated people or having even used a measure of violence to get their way. This isn't correct conduct for any Christian and most certainly not for a preacher.

Is there some reason you believe that some of the preachers we are talking about were like that?

What I'm applauding is those preachers who took the time to learn the Word, to live by the Word and to preach the Word. I don't endorse those who preach from the flesh, preaching with worldly terms and attitudes. One doesn't preach in such a manner if they are preaching the sound Word of God by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Do you have a sample of the sort of preaching you are talking about, a link that I could listen to or watch?

What you have described above is fleshly, self-centered sorts and that's not what I'm attempting to hold up here. I would say we are in agreement with regard to how we view those such as you described.

[Miss Linda]

After reading those biographies and then reading through the epistle it was evident that this has been going on since the beginning. Paul warned of those who would come in behind him teaching false doctrines. John spoke of those setting self above the things of God. Even in the Old Testament we read of faithful prophets having to contend with false prophets.

We today are engaged in a battle that has a very long history.

So very true. We need more mighty men of God who will have the spirit of Joshua and Phinehas in them. Men who are not afraid to call sin by it's name, and root it out from among their flock. I think of the sin of Achan (Joshua 7) whose disobedience was responsible for the loss of the battle of Ai because Achan took silver, gold and a "goodly Babylonish garment" and hid them in his tent. It seems like such a small thing, yet God called him accursed and commanded Joshua to have him stoned. I also think of the story in Numbers 25 when one of the Israelite men brought a "Midianitish woman" among his brethren, after they had been warned not to mingle with the daughters of the land. Phinehas acted quickly to remove the sin from among God's people.

Never ever has God been soft on sin, and He has always called His pastors to guide His flock away from sin and to make no compromise in any way. It seems to me that the good preachers of old were not quite so ready to compromise with sin.

[John81]

Many old time preachers were far more concerned with obeying God than pleasing men. Today it seems most preachers seek the approval of men before they consider what God commands.

It's amazing how often our pastor will be contacted by another pastor who needs help with some "problem". Most often after our pastor hears the problem his first response is to ask the other pastor what the Word of God says about it. Typically the other pastor will know what it says and as soon as they finish saying what the Word says they add "....but...". Then follows something like, "...but the deacons say...", or "...but most in the congregation think...", or "...but people around here believe...". To which our pastor again asks, this time using a term from the other pastor, "but what does the Word say". That's where it should all begin and end, what does the Word say! If what deacon Bobby and his buddies say, or what the congregation thinks, or what people around there believe, doesn't agree with the Word of God, then they are wrong and the pastor should, MUST, take his stand upon the Word of God; speaking and acting accordingly.

[JerryNumbers]

A few years back I read several old sermons from Billy Sunday and others. Their sermons are timeless, and would fit in very good even in 2011. Yet the truth is there be few that will listen to that type of preaching. They want sermons such as Billy Graham, Joel Osteen, and a few others give.

I want to add, I did a search for "Houston feel good preacher," number 3rd on the list was Mr. Feel Good himself, I figured he would be # 1.

Of course people nowadays are not no different than they were in the days of the 'Weeping Prophet,' nor when 'John the Baptist' came along to make way for Jesus, nor when "Jesus" actually started His ministry.

What they want is feel good {prosperity} messages like given my Mr. Osteen, and no preaching on self-sacrifice. They love the world, and all it offers, and they will not give it up to a life of sacrifice being willing servants to Jesus.

Yet we can be comforted that there is still a few people that loves that old story and are still willing sharing it, and there be a few that still accept it.

[John81]

A few years back I read several old sermons from Billy Sunday and others. Their sermons are timeless, and would fit in very good even in 2011. Yet the truth is there be few that will listen to that type of preaching. They want sermons such as Billy Graham, Joel Osteen, and a few others give.

I want to add, I did a search for "Houston feel good preacher," number 3rd on the list was Mr. Feel Good himself, I figured he would be # 1.

Of course people nowadays are not no different than they were in the days of the 'Weeping Prophet,' nor when 'John the Baptist' came along to make way for Jesus, nor when "Jesus" actually started His ministry.

What they want is feel good {prosperity} messages like given my Mr. Osteen, and no preaching on self-sacrifice. They love the world, and all it offers, and they will not give it up to a life of sacrifice being willing servants to Jesus.

Yet we can be comforted that there is still a few people that loves that old story and are still willing sharing it, and there be a few that still accept it.

Pointing out the timeless nature of sermons from solid old time preachers is a great thing to consider. Their sermons are timeless because they are so filled with Scripture and based upon the whole Word of God. So many of today's preachers want to make their sermons "relevant" to today to the point of turning them into contemporary cotton candy. Little Scripture is involved and it's often isolated, with much of Scripture never being preached upon.

Billy Sunday did indeed give some great sermons. Our local library updated their computer logging system, got rid of lots of older books, and rearranged shelves. When I went to check out the big volume on Billy Sunday I was told that book was no longer in their system and I could have the book if I wanted it. That book is now a part of my personal library.

Unfortunately, while the local library doesn't deem such truly good books worthy to keep, I noticed yesterday they now have several Joel Osteen books and one by Joyce Meyer. :icon_sad:

[Miss Linda]

Pointing out the timeless nature of sermons from solid old time preachers is a great thing to consider. Their sermons are timeless because they are so filled with Scripture and based upon the whole Word of God. So many of today's preachers want to make their sermons "relevant" to today to the point of turning them into contemporary cotton candy. Little Scripture is involved and it's often isolated, with much of Scripture never being preached upon.

Billy Sunday did indeed give some great sermons. Our local library updated their computer logging system, got rid of lots of older books, and rearranged shelves. When I went to check out the big volume on Billy Sunday I was told that book was no longer in their system and I could have the book if I wanted it. That book is now a part of my personal library.

Unfortunately, while the local library doesn't deem such truly good books worthy to keep, I noticed yesterday they now have several Joel Osteen books and one by Joyce Meyer.

What a wonderful find, John! I'll bet that book would have cost quite a bit if you had to pay for it yourself. You must have been absolutely thrilled driving home with that book in your possession, knowing you would never have to take it back! Why am I not surprised to hear that books by preachers of prosperity "gospel" are readily available at libraries. I am not surprised, but I am saddened.

I bought a Kindle ebook reader two years ago and have been fortunate enough to find that books by my favorite pre-1900 preachers and writers are available in Kindle format. I am particularly fond of John Angell James' book Female Piety and Matthew Henry's The Quest for Meekness and Quietness of Spirit. Those are not always easy to find in print edition these days, so I was delighted they were available in electronic format.

How I wish more pastors of our day would teach the uncompromising truths some of these pastors of old taught. How can Christians grow strong, resist the wiles of the evil one and avoid the pull of the world if they are fed, as you said, "contemporary cotton candy".

"For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 2:7-8) Edited June 19, 2011 by Miss Linda

[John81]

What a wonderful find, John! I'll bet that book would have cost quite a bit if you had to pay for it yourself. You must have been absolutely thrilled driving home with that book in your possession, knowing you would never have to take it back! Why am I not surprised to hear that books by preachers of prosperity "gospel" are readily available at libraries. I am not surprised, but I am saddened.

I bought a Kindle ebook reader two years ago and have been fortunate enough to find that books by my favorite pre-1900 preachers and writers are available in Kindle format. I am particularly fond of John Angell James' book Female Piety and Matthew Henry's A Discourse on Meekness and Quietness of Spirit. Those are not always easy to find in print edition these days, so I was delighted they were available in electronic format.

How I wish more pastors of our day would teach the uncompromising truths some of these pastors of old taught. How can Christians grow strong, resist the wiles of the evil one and avoid the pull of the world if they are fed, as you said, "contemporary cotton candy".

"For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 2:7-8)

There is such a difference between the hem-hawing, tip-toe preaching of so many today and the Holy Ghost driven 'this is what the Bible says' preaching of yesteryear!

The book I received from the library is "Billy Sunday: The Man and His Message". The book is a "Special First Edition", #2978; copyright 1914. It's in pretty good condition for its age and actually probably worth some money. I'm pleased to have it and, Lord willing, I'll pass it on to one of my children or grandchildren.

[Miss Linda]

There is such a difference between the hem-hawing, tip-toe preaching of so many today and the Holy Ghost driven 'this is what the Bible says' preaching of yesteryear!

The book I received from the library is "Billy Sunday: The Man and His Message". The book is a "Special First Edition", #2978; copyright 1914. It's in pretty good condition for its age and actually probably worth some money. I'm pleased to have it and, Lord willing, I'll pass it on to one of my children or grandchildren.

You actually have a book that was printed in 1914? That is quite wonderful!! I just looked on Amazon and saw that there is a 1914 first edition currently being sold for $277! What a wonderful legacy that you will be passing on to your children one day. I have no doubt they will treasure it as much as you do.

I also see that this book is available for 99 cents in Kindle format, so I do believe I'll be downloading it. I appreciate your mentioning the title! :)

[farouk]

Spurgeon is pretty good.

You can sense his heart in what he says in his sermons. And they are pretty sound.

[Covenanter]

The sermons published here get few comments - we are today's preachers & still have much to learn.

Valley of dry bones Ez. 37.
Any comments of this one: 1. Introduction to Ezekiel's prophecy2. The vision of the valley of dry bones3. The message of the vision4. What Jesus taught about spiritual life from the dead.5. The resurrection at the day of judgement.6. Eternal life – for us.

[John81]

The sermons published here get few comments - we are today's preachers & still have much to learn.

Valley of dry bones Ez. 37.
Any comments of this one: 1. Introduction to Ezekiel's prophecy2. The vision of the valley of dry bones3. The message of the vision4. What Jesus taught about spiritual life from the dead.5. The resurrection at the day of judgement.6. Eternal life – for us.

I've noticed that most sermons seem to go ignored and have wondered about that.

[Covenanter]

I've noticed that most sermons seem to go ignored and have wondered about that.

Can we therefore apply constructive criticism to each other's preaching?

Biblical faithfulness?
relevance?
application?

[farouk]

Can we therefore apply constructive criticism to each other's preaching?

Biblical faithfulness?
relevance?
application?

C;

Yes, this ought to be very possible. Preachers are not popes. Edited June 22, 2011 by farouk