95 Theses Against Dispensationalism

[John81]

Hagee actually has a pretty large following across spectrum. Even many who don't agree with all his views often agree with him regarding dispensationalism and the end-times.

[Brother Rick]

They'll ignore it. They lock their threads when they can't answer.

Cheap shot, and not true in the case between you and I. I answered you plenty of times, and over and over again you failed to answer me even after I continually reminded you. I locked it because it became tedious and completly unprofitable.

God bless.

Anime4christ, I'll look these over and give it a shot. Edited November 29, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[Invicta]

Using Hagee as a representative of typical dispensationalism. Most dispensationalists want nothing to do with the guy. I don't have time to even read all 95 items since skimming some of them proves to me it is not worth it. I have come to have full confidence in dispensationalism after a couple years of study in covenant vs dispensationist theology. So most of this list is things I have heard many times before.

It is not dispensationalism v Covenant, it is futurism versus preterism and historicism.

Dispensationalism is only a branch of Futurism. Both futurism and preterism are Roman Catholic inspired teachings, to take the threat off the Church of Rome, which historicism presented.

Again it is not literal interpretaion V allegorical, it is natural reading opposed to spiritual, both are literal.

I was sent , for many years, a magazine called Watching and Waiting, by the Sovereign Grace Advent Testimony, an organisation which is futurist, but not pre tribulation rapturist. They said that prophecy should be read as it is and not in any way interpreted. How foolish.

[Covenanter]

It is not dispensationalism v Covenant, it is futurism versus preterism and historicism.

Dispensationalism is only a branch of Futurism. Both futurism and preterism are Roman Catholic inspired teachings, to take the threat off the Church of Rome, which historicism presented.

As a preterist, I have no problem seeing the errors of Rome.


Again it is not literal interpretaion V allegorical, it is natural reading opposed to spiritual, both are literal.

True. When interpreting the OT, we must be guided by the NT writers. In the NT, ethnic Israel does not have the place given it by disps. Hebrews quotes & interprets the OT & leaves no place for a disp interpretation.

[John81]

What is the major importance regarding this issue? If there are dispensations, what does that really mean? If not, what does that really mean?

It's been a long time since I looked into much regarding dispensationalism, but I do recall that not all dispensationalists agree on the dispensations.

Much of what I've read over the years, as well as many Bible commentaries, have taken the dispensational position, I recall that much, but not many specifics.

Just curious as to why this is such an important topic for some and wondering why some dispensationalists I encountered on other forums some years ago were so touchy, and often angry on this point.

[Brother Rick]

What is the major importance regarding this issue? If there are dispensations, what does that really mean? If not, what does that really mean?

It's been a long time since I looked into much regarding dispensationalism, but I do recall that not all dispensationalists agree on the dispensations.

Much of what I've read over the years, as well as many Bible commentaries, have taken the dispensational position, I recall that much, but not many specifics.

Just curious as to why this is such an important topic for some and wondering why some dispensationalists I encountered on other forums some years ago were so touchy, and often angry on this point.

I don't know either brother, call the divisions what you want, just make sure to rightly divide. Failing to puts one back under the law, as is happening with this "Hebrew Roots" movement, at least from what I've heard about it recently.

[Brother Rick]

I told Anime I'd respond to this, and I'm doing the best I can to read it when I get the time to. I've gotten about 1/3 of the way through, and so far it seems to be that the author is attacking Dispensationalism on historical grounds most of the time. Knowing what the church fathers taught is nice and all, but historical interpretations are not the final authority, the Bible is.

Many of these church fathers, Justin Martyr for one (the author quoted him as an authority) also believed in Baptismal Regeneration, the damnable heresy found in the Church of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church. Most of them did not believe in Eternal Security either. They constantly tried to combine the sword with the Scriptures in making church states. I admire the church fathers for their courage and the bright and shining lights that they were, but they had a lot of things dead wrong. So attacking Dispensationalism from a historical standpoint means about as much to me as the asinine teaching that the Baptist church is the true Bride of Christ - which is a doctrine that based entirely on historical viewpoints and not the Bible.

Another attack that is made is that, basically, different Dispensationalists say different things. Some claim one plan of salvation all throughout Scripture and others think there are multiple plans of salvation. Some have seven dispensations, others have five. Some are pre, mid, or post-Tribulation rapture teachers. To all this, I can't help but answer, "Big deal." The Bible makes individuals, we're not all clones, and we all have the freedom to interpret the Bible how we want. That certainly doesn't mean that all interpretations are correct, but stating that different Dispensationalists have different interpretations isn't a legitimate attack on the system. Dispensationalism is simply a system to help interpret the Bible.

I for one, have no guru, living or dead, or creed that I seek out for the truth. The Bible is the final authority in what I believe, and though I may read other books, they are simply there to be used as a tool. Dispensationalism is not the final authority, it's just a tool.

I'm still reading these...

Edited November 30, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[John81]

I told Anime I'd respond to this, and I'm doing the best I can to read it when I get the time to. I've gotten about 1/3 of the way through, and so far it seems to be that the author is attacking Dispensationalism on historical grounds most of the time. Knowing what the church fathers taught is nice and all, but historical interpretations are not the final authority, the Bible is.

Many of these church fathers, Justin Martyr for one (the author quoted him as an authority) also believed in Baptismal Regeneration, the damnable heresy found in the Church of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church. Most of them did not believe in Eternal Security either. They constantly tried to combine the sword with the Scriptures in making church states. I admire the church fathers for their courage and the bright and shining lights that they were, but they had a lot of things dead wrong. So attacking Dispensationalism from a historical standpoint means about as much to me as the asinine teaching that the Baptist church is the true Bride of Christ - which is a doctrine that based entirely on historical viewpoints and not the Bible.

Another attack that is made is that, basically, different Dispensationalists say different things. Some claim one plan of salvation all throughout Scripture and others think there are multiple plans of salvation. Some have seven dispensations, others have five. Some are pre, mid, or post-Tribulation rapture teachers. To all this, I can't help but answer, "Big deal." The Bible makes individuals, we're not all clones, and we all have the freedom to interpret the Bible how we want. That certainly doesn't mean that all interpretations are correct, but stating that different Dispensationalists have different interpretations isn't a legitimate attack on the system. Dispensationalism is simply a system to help interpret the Bible.

I for one, have no guru, living or dead, or creed that I seek out for the truth. The Bible is the final authority in what I believe, and though I may read other books, they are simply there to be used as a tool. Dispensationalism is not the final authority, it's just a tool.

I'm still reading these...

How do you use dispensationalism as a tool?

[Covenanter]

How do you use dispensationalism as a tool?

I suggest he means "paradigm" or framework for interpretation of Scripture.

I use CT or "4-fold state" as a paradigm:

innocence - Adam in Eden;
guilt - OC - works/law - fall to Christ (includes all unbelievers for all time)
redeemed - NC - Christ onwards (includes all believers for all time)
glory - resurrection onwards - NH&NE

[Covenanter]

What is the major importance regarding this issue?

1Cr 15:32 .... if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

False doctrine leads to corrupt behaviour.

If we believe that the OC ended at the cross, then the hope for the Jews is the same as for all nations - Christ, & eternal glory & not the return of the nation to the Land....

unless we believe that the Jews are perpetually under a curse, & should be persecuted & denied a place in society.

If we believe the ethnic Jews are eternally God's chosen people, then we will see events in the Land in terms of prophecy & God's eternal purposes.

The way the church has influenced the civil powers for persecution of Jews, & war to support them is profoundly relevant to all of us, including "the war on terrorism."

If we believe the world is heading imminently for antichrist & tribulation AFTER believers are raptured, then we will have little concern for the world we live in - we will not suffer with the world's sinners..


If there are dispensations, what does that really mean? If not, what does that really mean?

It's been a long time since I looked into much regarding dispensationalism, but I do recall that not all dispensationalists agree on the dispensations.

Much of what I've read over the years, as well as many Bible commentaries, have taken the dispensational position, I recall that much, but not many specifics.

Just curious as to why this is such an important topic for some and wondering why some dispensationalists I encountered on other forums some years ago were so touchy, and often angry on this point.

[trc123]

I have an electronic version of both these documents in one file (just copied and pasted from their posting on the websites to a .PRC file) so that I can study these in my eBook reader. Very handy.

[Guest]

I have Larkin's book, Rightly Deviding The Word. It has the charts from his book, Dispensational Truth. I haven't read either but, I'm under grace and waiting for physical death or the rapture. Is there an "app" for that?

[Brother Rick]

How do you use dispensationalism as a tool?

Like Covenanter said, it's a framework for understanding the Scriptures. "Dispensations" is just a word, and though it is used in the Bible, what's more important than the actual word is the idea behind it. The idea is that God hasn't dealt with everyone the same throughout history. If you want to just draw your lines with the Old and New Testament, you've basically recognized two dispensations.

From there, if you understand that God dealt with those in the garden differently than He did with those after the fall, you've recognized three dispensations.

To get to four, all you have to do is understand that one day there will be a New Heavens and New Earth, and it will be different then than it is now.

Now, understanding that, it wouldn't be very smart of me to apply a doctrinal command under the Old Testament (such as the Sabbath) to myself today. Very basic idea, but much of the time it isn't applied and people wind up putting themselves under the law - even today. It's important to understand that the wonderful promises of healing to those in the Millennium (or if you're a Preterist, wonderful promises to those in the NH & NE) do not apply today, yet the Charismatic movement teaches that healing is in the atonement TODAY. That is another case where one is not applying the idea of Dispensations to rightly divide.

As that one bald guy said, "Et cetera, Et cetera, Et cetera..."

[John81]

Are all Dispensationalists pre-mil Rapture believers who support Israel/Jews?

What does Coventant Theology teach as the next biblical thing to happen?

[LindaR]

Are all Dispensationalists pre-mil Rapture believers who support Israel/Jews?

What does Coventant Theology teach as the next biblical thing to happen?

John..

There are some really good articles on Dispensaionalism and Covenant Theology on the Middletown Bible Church website.

Here is a link to an article (which is actually a group of articles) which explains the differences between Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology:

Dispensationalism