Brotherly love

[ptwild]

Seems your OK with people doing anything that will not send a person to hell, yet, for the saved person, nothing will send them to hell so that means they can do anything and everything, but why would they want to if the love Jesus?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

You mean these commandments: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself?

The prOBlem with you Jerry is that you are always right. You never make a mistake, you never sin. And if you do, you never admit it, you never confess it. At least not publically. And that is why there can be no fellowship between you and the whole Church. It is because while the rest of us are solmnly confessing our sins in humble repentence, you and your crowd are too busy shining your shoes and ironing your starch white shirts (come on and admit it, I know where you're from and your kind love their startched white shirts).

I believe you are a Christian. The most unsavory of kinds, but still a Christian. You and I will have a reckoning one day. And I for one cannot wait.

[John81]

You mean these commandments: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself?

The prOBlem with you Jerry is that you are always right. You never make a mistake, you never sin. And if you do, you never admit it, you never confess it. At least not publically. And that is why there can be no fellowship between you and the whole Church. It is because while the rest of us are solmnly confessing our sins in humble repentence, you and your crowd are too busy shining your shoes and ironing your starch white shirts (come on and admit it, I know where you're from and your kind love their startched white shirts).

I believe you are a Christian. The most unsavory of kinds, but still a Christian. You and I will have a reckoning one day. And I for one cannot wait.

You are way out of line here. Jerry has many times confessed sins and weaknesses and discussed issues he still wrestles with just as we all do. Declaring the truth doesn't make one perfect.

The Scripture you quote ties right in with what Jerry was talking about. If we are truly in Christ it will show in how we live. It's a fact of Scripture that if we love Christ we WILL (not might, not every now and then) keep His commandments. That doesn't just mean the ones we agree with or like, but all of them.

Are any of us ever going to perfectly do this in this lifetime? Of course not! However, we are called to pursue holiness and with each passing day of our lives in Christ we should be becoming more Christlike.

Following Christ as Scripture commands isn't a simple task, and absolutely nothing we could do on our own. In the power of the Holy Ghost we can bring sin into subject, we can follow Christ as our Lord.

If we proclaim to follow Christ yet we don't, then that is a sign we need to examine our salvation! This applies to everyone who professes Christ. If we can't see more of Christ in our lives this year than we did last, then something is very wrong.

Scripture is very clear that many will call out to Christ in the end proclaiming they belong with Him because of this and that, but because they were never truly His they will hear those dreadful words "depart from me for I never knew you."

Another account of this is recorded in Luke 13. We read specifically of these in verses 26, 27, "The shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in they presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence you are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."

Verse 28 declares their fate, "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and JacOB, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

The way of Christ is narrow and few truly find it. Even among those who proclaim they are His, there will be many who learn otherwise because they did not as Scripture commands.

[ptwild]

You are way out of line here. Jerry has many times confessed sins and weaknesses and discussed issues he still wrestles with just as we all do. Declaring the truth doesn't make one perfect.

The Scripture you quote ties right in with what Jerry was talking about. If we are truly in Christ it will show in how we live. It's a fact of Scripture that if we love Christ we WILL (not might, not every now and then) keep His commandments. That doesn't just mean the ones we agree with or like, but all of them.

Are any of us ever going to perfectly do this in this lifetime? Of course not! However, we are called to pursue holiness and with each passing day of our lives in Christ we should be becoming more Christlike.

Following Christ as Scripture commands isn't a simple task, and absolutely nothing we could do on our own. In the power of the Holy Ghost we can bring sin into subject, we can follow Christ as our Lord.

If we proclaim to follow Christ yet we don't, then that is a sign we need to examine our salvation! This applies to everyone who professes Christ. If we can't see more of Christ in our lives this year than we did last, then something is very wrong.

Scripture is very clear that many will call out to Christ in the end proclaiming they belong with Him because of this and that, but because they were never truly His they will hear those dreadful words "depart from me for I never knew you."

Another account of this is recorded in Luke 13. We read specifically of these in verses 26, 27, "The shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in they presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence you are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."

Verse 28 declares their fate, "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and JacOB, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

The way of Christ is narrow and few truly find it. Even among those who proclaim they are His, there will be many who learn otherwise because they did not as Scripture commands.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. All Irishman is saying is that he can fellowship with someone he doesn't agree with 100%. You and I believe the same thing about salvation and I suspect our only real difference is that I believe in infant baptism. Should that keep us from setting down to dinner together and talking about how good God is and how blessed we are to have such a merciful saviour? Should supposedly infamous differences keep us divided when we have so much more in common?

Do you ever think that it might be you whom Christ tells to depart from him?

[CPR]

Seems your OK with people doing anything that will not send a person to hell, yet, for the saved person, nothing will send them to hell so that means they can do anything and everything, but why would they want to if the love Jesus?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Once again, you either did not read my entire post or read it already having your mind made up about me and what I was going to say.

I said, "all Christians should seek to follow and OBey Jesus." That does not mean that I am okay with doing anything as long as it doesn't send you to hell. The point is that some things are of secondary importance. That doesn't give people a license to sin, or it shouldn't, at least not if you read and think about it in the spirit that I think everyone is trying to convey. Take style of worship. I prefer a more liturgical and formal service. You may not. That doesn't mean that God approves of one more than the other but that these are secondary matters that do not affect our salvation and should not affect our ability to fellowship as fellow Christians, even if we do not attend the same church. Does that make sense?

[Pastor Matt]

You mean these commandments: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself?

The prOBlem with you Jerry is that you are always right. You never make a mistake, you never sin. And if you do, you never admit it, you never confess it. At least not publically. And that is why there can be no fellowship between you and the whole Church. It is because while the rest of us are solmnly confessing our sins in humble repentence, you and your crowd are too busy shining your shoes and ironing your starch white shirts (come on and admit it, I know where you're from and your kind love their startched white shirts).

I believe you are a Christian. The most unsavory of kinds, but still a Christian. You and I will have a reckoning one day. And I for one cannot wait.

I agree with John, completely uncalled for and unacceptable behavior. Don't turn a topic into a personal attack.

[JerryNumbers]

Perhaps your use of the word reckoning means that one day you will get even, and your warning me that day will soon be on me, now that really sounds very Christ like. Makes you sound like a person who has never read this verse or cares not to abide by it.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I still remember very clearly the offer you made to me, maybe now instead of offering me money to cancel my membership to this group, your threats are getting very grave. Oh, I recall too, Jesus got many threats, they finally murdered Him.

Presbyterian Episcopalian, Anglican, which ever one you belong to, are among those I will not fellowship with, will not worship with. I firmly believe in OBeying all of God's commandments, even though I know its not popular.


John thank you for taking up for me, this man has threatened me before, seems he is getting a bit more serious.

[amblivion]

I am a bit confused. Are we talking about in a local church, or just in our daily lifes? I know for one I am a lot more relaxed on who I fellowship in my daily life than I ever would be at my church. Church is a place for Christians to learn and fellowship. If someone is preaching or teaching false doctrine in a church, then there is a prOBlem. That being said if it you mean in our personal lifes I would agree. My husband has a very good friend who is more of a Pentecostal not a Oneness mind you.

[John81]

I am a bit confused. Are we talking about in a local church, or just in our daily lifes? I know for one I am a lot more relaxed on who I fellowship in my daily life than I ever would be at my church. Church is a place for Christians to learn and fellowship. If someone is preaching or teaching false doctrine in a church, then there is a prOBlem. That being said if it you mean in our personal lifes I would agree. My husband has a very good friend who is more of a Pentecostal not a Oneness mind you.

You seem to understand. There can be a measure of fellowship with Believers in our personal lives even if we wouldn't attend their church. There should be a balance between individual fellowship and separation from wayward churches.

[JerryNumbers]

Once again, you either did not read my entire post or read it already having your mind made up about me and what I was going to say.

I said, "all Christians should seek to follow and OBey Jesus." That does not mean that I am okay with doing anything as long as it doesn't send you to hell. The point is that some things are of secondary importance. That doesn't give people a license to sin, or it shouldn't, at least not if you read and think about it in the spirit that I think everyone is trying to convey. Take style of worship. I prefer a more liturgical and formal service. You may not. That doesn't mean that God approves of one more than the other but that these are secondary matters that do not affect our salvation and should not affect our ability to fellowship as fellow Christians, even if we do not attend the same church. Does that make sense?

No, I read your whole post, it just seem that thinking is so that one can have an excuse to sin.

Once we had a visiting pastor years ago, he stated, there is no big sins or little sins, all sins are the same, they are sin. I disagree. Reason. The worse sin a person can commit is to reject Jesus as Savior, there is no forgiveness for that sin and it dooms a person to hell forever.

And of course the sin of murder is worse than the sin of stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family. Even the penalty of murder carries a harsher sentence than stealing a loaf of bread.

That said, this verse says it all to a child of God.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If we love Him, seems we are going to try our best not to sin, if we are thinking there be sins that are secondary, seems we are looking for excuses to sin those so called secondary sins. Is there really any excuse that we can offer up to God for our sin or sins? No.

Of course, all it take is one very minor sin to doom us to hell forever, in order to make heaven on our very own we would have to keep the whole law, and not even sin one very minor sin. Of course the only one that was able to keep the whole law was our Savior Christ. And thanks only to Him and God's mercy and grace that we can have the hope of heaven.

[JerryNumbers]

I am a bit confused. Are we talking about in a local church, or just in our daily lifes? I know for one I am a lot more relaxed on who I fellowship in my daily life than I ever would be at my church. Church is a place for Christians to learn and fellowship. If someone is preaching or teaching false doctrine in a church, then there is a prOBlem. That being said if it you mean in our personal lifes I would agree. My husband has a very good friend who is more of a Pentecostal not a Oneness mind you.

I'm not going to worship with them and they will not be my best friends, for I really have nothing in common with them. And no, I am not saying they are lost, I let Jesus take care of that, plus I already have a handful without taking that on.

The local SBC Church downtown will worship with anyone that will worship with them, regardless of what they believe or teach. Yes, they will worship with those who claim your saved by works, baptizing, church membership. They get together quite often taking time about who stands behind the pulpit to preach the Word.


Another example, there be two Baptist pastors who have left the Baptist, one is now pastor of an Assembly of God church, the other is pastor of a church of Christ, I would not have them as my friends, we have nothing in common.

Would I be polite to them, yes, would I help them if trouble came their way, yes. Friends, never.

[CPR]

No, I read your whole post, it just seem that thinking is so that one can have an excuse to sin.

Once we had a visiting pastor years ago, he stated, there is no big sins or little sins, all sins are the same, they are sin. I disagree. Reason. The worse sin a person can commit is to reject Jesus as Savior, there is no forgiveness for that sin and it dooms a person to hell forever.

And of course the sin of murder is worse than the sin of stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family. Even the penalty of murder carries a harsher sentence than stealing a loaf of bread.

That said, this verse says it all to a child of God.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If we love Him, seems we are going to try our best not to sin, if we are thinking there be sins that are secondary, seems we are looking for excuses to sin those so called secondary sins. Is there really any excuse that we can offer up to God for our sin or sins? No.

Of course, all it take is one very minor sin to doom us to hell forever, in order to make heaven on our very own we would have to keep the whole law, and not even sin one very minor sin. Of course the only one that was able to keep the whole law was our Savior Christ. And thanks only to Him and God's mercy and grace that we can have the hope of heaven.

Perhaps I'm not being clear and I think we might have a misunderstanding here. I'm not talking about sin or having an excuse to sin. I'm not talking about "secondary sins." What I'm talking about are secondary issues. Not sin. I apologize if I wasn't being clear before.

What I mean is that you and I seem to have many differences. But I'm pretty sure that we both agree that salvation is gained by grace through faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross.

Now, we attend different churches. We most likely disagree on what the ideal worship service consists of and whether we prefer it to be in a more "high" or "low" church tradition. Christians, even those who are Baptist and post on this board, disagree on issues like alcohol, dress, Bible versions and homeschooling. Disagreement over these things isn't an excuse to sin, but true Christians on both sides of each issue have come to their conclusion through prayer and careful Bible study.

All I'm saying is that you may miss some wonderful fellowship and maybe even miss out on something God has for you if you break fellowship with the Methodist down the street because they have an occasional glass of wine and she wears pants, but you never drink and your wife only wears dresses. This is what I mean by a secondary issue for Christians. Not saying everyone should go to the same church, but at the end of the day, most of us have more in common than we have different. Edited August 16, 2010 by CPR

[irishman]

let me clear the air a little here, since I have been quoted several times, and a few have given meaning to my words. I should have made the distinction that has been made here, that I do not "run" with others from other denominations, not to any great extent; but, neither can I ignore them! The Bible tells us to live peaceably with all men, "if it be possible" that separates the thought, that last part (underlined) makes the difference.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

It does not mean that we should become close friends, it simply means that we should not fight.

My original post came through meditation on the actions of believers, and not on the biblical and commanded separation of believers. The passage quoted a few times on this thread says it all:"Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" These were looking at their works, and not at the Lord for their salvation--that's why He "never knew" them. They thought that their works made them Christians, at least that's what they used as their validity for being Christians.

I do not care to go fishing with someone of a vastly different persuasion, because his actions (bringing along a six-pack!) would be a vexation to my spirit; if I am uncomfortable because of what some call "secondary" doctrine, (which, if Biblical, IS NOT secondary), I do not run with them, but I can still talk to them. (Fellowship). Such is the case with my own brother in law, we cannot even talk for very long when we are together, but I don't hate him, and he don't hate me! We agree one the salvation issue, but there is much more that we do not agree on, to the extent that we argue whenever we are together for any length of time.

I am dogmatic on what I believe, because I have scripture to back it up; if someone interprets the scripture differently than I do, that's their prerogative, but, as one has said "there is a day of reckoning".

By the way, I too think I'm right, if I didn't I would sit down and shut up!

(When two disagree, they both think they're right, or there would be no disagreement!) I don't get to upset when people tell me I think I'm always right.

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

[ptwild]

Perhaps your use of the word reckoning means that one day you will get even, and your warning me that day will soon be on me, now that really sounds very Christ like. Makes you sound like a person who has never read this verse or cares not to abide by it.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I still remember very clearly the offer you made to me, maybe now instead of offering me money to cancel my membership to this group, your threats are getting very grave. Oh, I recall too, Jesus got many threats, they finally murdered Him.

Presbyterian Episcopalian, Anglican, which ever one you belong to, are among those I will not fellowship with, will not worship with. I firmly believe in OBeying all of God's commandments, even though I know its not popular.


John thank you for taking up for me, this man has threatened me before, seems he is getting a bit more serious.

First of all, quit comparing your self to Christ. It's insulting. And I didn't threaten you. You are a Christian and I am a Christian. Christ died for both of us, not prefering one to the other. One day, we will both be in heaven and I'm afraid that once we get there, you won't have a choice as to whether you will fellowship with me or not. That's the reckoning I am looking forward to. I don't think you (or a reasonalbe person I should say) could have have honestly concluded that I was threatening you in any way - you just want to sensationalize the issue.

The above part in bold is an great example of why you are wrong. If there were ever an occassion where you had little food and I had plenty, or you had some other trouble and I offered to help. You would reject me because I was baptized as a baby. On the flip side, I had little food and you had plenty, or I had some other trouble, you would not offer to help. You would sit in your pseudorighteous corner thanking Jesus for how "right" you are. You don't love your neighbor as yourself. You love yourself and you judge your neighbor. Like I said, one day you are going to be surrounded by whole host of Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians . . . and I don't believe you'll have any choice, or desire, but to join with them in worshiping our Lord. God never commanded you to not fellowship with other Christians. I love how you try to twist scripture to say how "Jerry" feels. Other than that, pickles to you Sir, pickles I say.

[Pastor Matt]

Fellowship and being Friendly are two different things. The two can't be compared.

While I would not Fellowship with a Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Anglican, etc., I would be Friendly and help one out in the time of need. I've helped out many people in the time of need with food and clothing, but I would not sit there and hold their hand and sing "Kumbaya, my Lord" with them.

Again
Fellowship and being Friendly are two different things.

[John81]

First of all, quit comparing your self to Christ. It's insulting. And I didn't threaten you. You are a Christian and I am a Christian. Christ died for both of us, not prefering one to the other. One day, we will both be in heaven and I'm afraid that once we get there, you won't have a choice as to whether you will fellowship with me or not. That's the reckoning I am looking forward to. I don't think you (or a reasonalbe person I should say) could have have honestly concluded that I was threatening you in any way - you just want to sensationalize the issue.

The above part in bold is an great example of why you are wrong. If there were ever an occassion where you had little food and I had plenty, or you had some other trouble and I offered to help. You would reject me because I was baptized as a baby. On the flip side, I had little food and you had plenty, or I had some other trouble, you would not offer to help. You would sit in your pseudorighteous corner thanking Jesus for how "right" you are. You don't love your neighbor as yourself. You love yourself and you judge your neighbor. Like I said, one day you are going to be surrounded by whole host of Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians . . . and I don't believe you'll have any choice, or desire, but to join with them in worshiping our Lord. God never commanded you to not fellowship with other Christians. I love how you try to twist scripture to say how "Jerry" feels. Other than that, pickles to you Sir, pickles I say.

If you had read Jerry's post #25 you would have known ahead of time that what you scathingly attempt to put forth here is wrong.

The difference between fellowshiping, being friends or being friendly with those who proclaim Christ here on earth and in heaven, is that some here on earth are yoking themselves to false teachings, giving the appearance of evil, leading folks astray, etc., while in heaven we will all be in the perfect will of God and therefore capable of pure fellowship and friendship.