Just a simple reminder...

[Calvary]

Ya know, dwayne, kevin, both of you prove that what I was saying is so true.

I merely am trying to say, I for one am amazed that so much anti-KJB commetns are made in the threads on the Bible when the position of this board is one of KJB is error free.

I don't need to eat dinner with Matt to read what he has clearly written by his own hand to "know" the position of this board. Niether do I need to hang out with dwayne for a few weeks to understand him. Your posts (mine as well) reveal who we are.

I didn't mention censorship, yet you have turned it into a debate about whether not we have the right to discuss the weakness of the KJB.

You wanting to defend the desire to debate the KJB demonstrates what's in your hearts about the issue.

No one said "stamp out" anything kevin, and the alarmist reaction to a simple "reminder" shows me that you men always desire your opinions over a final authority.

The method of response by dwayne also tells me a lot. By separating my comments into several separted and isolated comments, you can make me to say (contextually) things I did not intimate in my general train of thought.

Brother, I don't care what you say about not knowing you. We know each other enough on this board after 300 - 400 posts that I can hardly believe that you might actually suggest we don't "know" each other to presume a few things.
I know Jesus having never seen him face to face. I know Paul by his writings, his thoughts, I could gander a guess at what he might say to this issue of "which Bible."

I know that you are liberal in the "standards issue". I know that you do not believe the KJB is the final word. I know that you generally fall in the "tolerant" group when it comes to dress, music, worship styles, and other area of "conviction". That does not mean you are wrong. I did not say that. I am merely pointing out that we do in fact know each other around here well enough.

Now, look, this thread has already gone around a corner that I never had in mind when I posted it. That's what the KJB debate always does. No matter our best intentions. It ALWAYS turns into an arguement. Because there are a myriad of opinions.

I have seen you dwayne toss out greek and then when the same greek proved your case sour, reject the greek. It always goes that way in this debate.

That's why I say again, and with charity. The KJB deabte is a waste of band width.

There is nothing that you can say to me that will make me reform my stance on the KJB. There is nothing that I could say to make you say, "The KJB is the final authority, without error!".

Does anyone here really think that they are going to bring something new to the table?


And I have to say, that the decision is not mine to carry. Having said that and recognizing it's not my place to run this board. I refrain from further comment.

God bless,

Calvary

[dwayner79]

Calvary,

A few things.

I make it a habit to respond point by point, especially on a lengthy post with so many issues brought up. If you do not like that, I apologize. It is what it is.

I do have to take issue with this:

Brother, I don't care what you say about not knowing you. We know each other enough on this board after 300 - 400 posts that I can hardly believe that you might actually suggest we don't "know" each other to presume a few things.

This is what you presummed:

You are not KJB only. You are "whatever suits my needs" only.

It is very clear to me that you do not know me if you are willing to make this statement. If you are willing to change your presumptions, then I would reconsider your ability to presume.

Also,

I have seen you dwayne toss out greek and then when the same greek proved your case sour, reject the greek. It always goes that way in this debate.

Care to give an example? I try rather hard not to change positions on a wim, but perhaps I did. I would love to see this claim backed up.

It is ironically humorous that you are offended when a few people voice their concern over the idea that we should not talk about the KJVo debate.

I just don't think that the folks here share your concern. Most here do not want every discussion to turn into a KJVo discussion, but there are so many comments that can be made that people take as an attack on the KJV. I think the better position is to not assume someone is attacking the KJV with every comment.

[kevinmiller]

I merely am trying to say, I for one am amazed that so much anti-KJB commetns are made in the threads on the Bible when the position of this board is one of KJB is error free.

That is also my position.

I didn't mention censorship, yet you have turned it into a debate about whether not we have the right to discuss the weakness of the KJB.

Calvary said(OP):

If you beleive that there could have been a better translation, you are entitled to that belief, but we are not interested in that opinion.

No one said "stamp out" anything kevin, and the alarmist reaction to a simple "reminder" shows me that you men always desire your opinions over a final authority.

I have no desire to place my opinions over the Bible. Anyone who knows me after 5,000+ posts would know that. I simply think that we should allow discussion of it. I, for one, have been strengthened in my beliefs the most when they are challenged.

Kevin

[Pastor Matt]

Does anyone here really think that they are going to bring something new to the table?

That is the key right there. Is is not the discussion that we do not like, it is the constant attack on it that gets rather old.

One of many examples: Countless times we have explained the grammatical revisions of the KJV, and yet is is always brought up with no new evidence from the opposing side. All the threads end up beating dead horses. I will change my position if you can gladly explain to me how these threads are edifying to our Lord. Sure the flesh may like it, but God does not lifted up in the end.

[kevinmiller]

So I assume that there won't be a KJV thread.

But at the same time, how do you make the decision of what crosses the line? Is the issue just that you don't want threads dedicated to it or that their shouldn't be differing views on the subject at all? Not that I want to criticize the KJV in any shape, form or fashion but I'm still working through exactly where I stand on the "KJV-only" idea and appreciate the discussion. :smile

[dwayner79]

BroMatt, it is this side that I agree with you.

There are issues that are beat to death and should stay that way.

What I am referring to is when a person says, "In Hezekiah 3:16, it says blah blah blah, what do you think about that?" and a person replies with, "well the greek seems to imply that blah blah blah is not just blah blah blah, but that second blah is really emphasized, perhaps blah BLAH blah would of been better" and all of a sudden its a KJVo debate thread. That is what grows tiring.

IMHO, we should focus on discussing things and make serious efforts to stop assuming everything is an attack on the KJV.

Hope that makes sense.

[Pastor Matt]

More than likely we will have a KJV forum, right now I am I have a lot of other work to take care of before I get that done. I am working on a security audit, maybe when I am done with that.

What crosses the line? That is up the moderators discretion. If it is sincere post, no problem. Like everything else it is based on the attitude of the poster, are you here tell us some new revelation? or is it to uplift Christ?

[kevinmiller]

BroMatt, it is this side that I agree with you.

There are issues that are beat to death and should stay that way.

What I am referring to is when a person says, "In Hezekiah 3:16, it says blah blah blah, what do you think about that?" and a person replies with, "well the greek seems to imply that blah blah blah is not just blah blah blah, but that second blah is really emphasized, perhaps blah BLAH blah would of been better" and all of a sudden its a KJVo debate thread. That is what grows tiring.

IMHO, we should focus on discussing things and make serious efforts to stop assuming everything is an attack on the KJV.

Hope that makes sense.

That's interesting because I was thinking about this just today. I think sometimes when people think you are correcting the KJV, it is not that you think it could be said better, but that you are saying it a different way. I oftentimes paraphrase verses that I have memorized to make them more personal. It's not correcting it by my personalizing it without changing the meaning or the majority of the words.

Obviously, there are people that do correct the KJV and I think that is wrong.

[Pastor Matt]

What I am referring to is when a person says, "In Hezekiah 3:16, it says blah blah blah, what do you think about that?" and a person replies with, "well the greek seems to imply that blah blah blah is not just blah blah blah, but that second blah is really emphasized, perhaps blah BLAH blah would of been better" and all of a sudden its a KJVo debate thread. That is what grows tiring.

I think we are pretty fair in regards to this. We have banned just as many Ruckmanites as we have non-KJVo people. It is all about attitude of the poster and if they are really seeking answers or not.

[dwayner79]

That's interesting because I was thinking about this just today. I think sometimes when people think you are correcting the KJV, it is not that you think it could be said better, but that you are saying it a different way. I oftentimes paraphrase verses that I have memorized to make them more personal. It's not correcting it by my personalizing it without changing the meaning or the majority of the words.

Obviously, there are people that do correct the KJV and I think that is wrong.

Good point. :tip:

[Pastor Matt]

That's interesting because I was thinking about this just today. I think sometimes when people think you are correcting the KJV, it is not that you think it could be said better, but that you are saying it a different way. I oftentimes paraphrase verses that I have memorized to make them more personal. It's not correcting it by my personalizing it without changing the meaning or the majority of the words.

If you can point me to a thread where this has happened and got lock or members banned because of this I would like to re-read the thread.

Edit: I moved post to the Bible forum.

[dwayner79]

I think we are pretty fair in regards to this. We have banned just as many Ruckmanites as we have non-KJVo people. It is all about attitude of the poster and if they are really seeking answers or not.

I agree, which is why I do not think the OP was needed, hence the reply. I think there is a healthy amount of KJVo discussion, but I think that in the Biblical Issues section, the whole debate comes into play a bit too often. There are times when good discussions completely unrelated to KJVo end up becoming KJVo debates. If I were to offer "Just a simple reminder" it would be to do what we can to safeguard against that.

Edit: Well we WERE in the Biblical Issues section :lol:

[Pastor Matt]

Wasn't the OP a reminder? :lol:

[kevinmiller]

If you can point me to a thread where this has happened and got lock or members banned because of this I would like to re-read the thread.

Edit: I moved post to the Bible forum.

I can't think of any off-hand. I wasn't really referring to the leadership here either since I find that you guys are pretty fair and balanced. I just think that sometimes people are too sensitive about making a KJV issue out of something the poster had no intention of it being. Not that if they are wrong, they shouldn't be confronted, I just think that we could use a little bit more discernment before starting KJV debates over little things. :smile

[dwayner79]

Wasn't the OP a reminder?

It sure didn't seem like one :peek: