Street Preaching Ridiculed in Berkeley (Go Figure)

[Bro. Williams]

Downtown berkeley: Merchants say they're losing business as customers flee fire-and-brimstone preachers who use PA systems

What would Jesus do? He'd probably tell them all to shut the hell up.
And thank God that during the Sermon on the Mount he didn't use a public address system, which is what the Bay Area Outreach Ministries' preachers are using, to great annoyance, in Berkeley at the corner of Telegraph Avenue and Haste Street. The free newspaper, the Berkeley Daily Planet, recently published an article about how these fire-and-brimstone-spewing clowns are force-feeding their version of redemption to whoever crosses their sidewalk-blocking paths.
Get out of the way. While they're trying to save souls, they're also gumming up the pathways in front of the local merchants trying to sell their goods.
Listen to Jesus. The Bible says he didn't yell much. Sure, he got ticked off at the money changers in the temple one day and knocked over a few tables, but that was about it for bad behavior.
Berkeley residents don't seem much interested in the message of eternal damnation for their "wicked" ways. Or having religious pamphlets shoved in their faces.
Crazies are a part of street life. But they're usually unamplified. These purveyors of the New Testament's "Good News" might want to try getting their message across in a genteel way, rather than through a bullhorn blast.
As a local florist said in an apt sign: "Why crucify me?"
That local florist is Gwynn Coffee. And she is fed up with it all; it's hurting business, Coffee said, and chewing up her work day.
"It's not only putting a damper on things," she said, "it's also taking up my time. Nobody really wants to walk on that side of the street when they're there."
So what does she think Jesus would do? "He'd look down and say, 'That's not what I meant,' " she said. " 'You're misrepresenting me.' "
Larry Rosenbaum of the ministries group doesn't see it that way. He said they're just there "to share the gospel of Jesus Christ."
But he does admit it's an amplified message.
Rosenbaum said he doesn't mean to drive away business, just preach Biblical teachings.
And he said it's in the way of Jesus. "I think Jesus, when he was on Earth, he did preach the gospel. He was very loud, because thousands of people could hear him at one time. So he must've been loud with his voice."
Yeah, maybe so, but Rosenbaum and his ilk ain't Jesus. They're not turning water into wine; they're not raising the dead; they're not casting demons into pigs. He and his colleague apostles are just annoying the hell out of everyone, particularly Coffee.
"I'm a third-generation Berkeleyite," she said. "And if there's something we covet here, it's our freedom of speech. The problem is when it's so loud that me, a loud person, can't hear my customers on the phone."
Complaints have also come from Amoeba Records, which Rosenbaum finds puzzling, since they blast their own music inside the store. OK, I'll give him that. Good point.
He said they're usually out there just on Saturdays, but recently stepped it up to commemorate the supposedly evil "Summer of Love," the 1967 San Francisco freak-fest.
Coffee, who has tried to call the cops, said the preachers always turn down the decibel level by the time they arrive. So she's started a petition drive to shut them down, a very grassroots Berkeley kind of thing to do.
It's "so when people are out here plugging their ears, cringing, we can offer them a petition," she said.
Rosenbaum says they all play nice. "We certainly try to be considerate of the people in the area there," he said. "I'm not aware that we're driving away any business. I guess the flower woman is the most disturbed with us."
Well, yes.
So, how about this? Take away the amplification. Just talk loud as Jesus did. And all will be at peace and the meeker you are, the more of the Earth thou shall inherit.
Dan Reed is a Bay Area freelance writer. Contact us at Insight@sfchronicle.com.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../INNTRRTTC.DTL
This article appeared on page E - 2 of the San Francisco Chronicle
San Francisco Chronicle Sections MagazineStyleSportsBay AreaTravelBusinessInsightReal EstateDatebookBook ReviewsCommentarySunday DatebookNews

[Bro. Williams]

First, it is Berkeley, a haven for infidels, Bible-haters, Jesus haters and heathen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moondg
Downtown berkeley: Merchants say they're losing business as customers flee fire-and-brimstone preachers who use PA systems

Fire and brimstone is always set in a negative light, when hell is a popular topic of our Lord.

Quote:
What would Jesus do? He'd probably tell them all to shut the hell up.

And that pretty well sums up the biased opinion of the author.

Quote:
And thank God that during the Sermon on the Mount he didn't use a public address system, which is what the Bay Area Outreach Ministries' preachers are using, to great annoyance, in Berkeley at the corner of Telegraph Avenue and Haste Street.

He is God manifest in the flesh, why would he need a PA? It has been said that Whitefield and Wesley could be heard in a one mile radius.

Personally, we don't use PA's. Those that I have used for other reasons in my past life (crowd control at concerts, working in early ministries I wouldnt name) are loud, but are nothing more than the filth that "spews" out of vehicles.

Quote:
The free newspaper, the Berkeley Daily Planet, recently published an article about how these fire-and-brimstone-spewing clowns are force-feeding their version of redemption to whoever crosses their sidewalk-blocking paths.

"spewing clowns". Where is the acceptance? Where are the cries for tolerance? All that is thrown out the window when it comes to Christians who take a bold stance for the Lord.

"force feeding their version of redemption" - Excuse me, the Bible's version of redemption, which is God's version.

Quote:
Get out of the way. While they're trying to save souls, they're also gumming up the pathways in front of the local merchants trying to sell their goods.

Pedestrians don't gum up the walks? The preachers are not the ones selling anything, they are giving away free life eternal.

Quote:
Listen to Jesus.

Amen, first intelligent thing said yet.

Quote:
The Bible says he didn't yell much.

Really? Where would that verse be?

Quote:
Sure, he got ticked off at the money changers in the temple one day and knocked over a few tables, but that was about it for bad behavior.

You see how this FOOL thinks? Jesus was bad. Look at it again.

Quote:
Berkeley residents don't seem much interested in the message of eternal damnation for their "wicked" ways. Or having religious pamphlets shoved in their faces.

You don't say.

Quote:
Crazies are a part of street life.

Ahhh, here we go. Street preachers (or Christians who preach the gospel to a dying world), are crazy.

Quote:
But they're usually unamplified. These purveyors of the New Testament's "Good News" might want to try getting their message across in a genteel way, rather than through a bullhorn blast.

Why doesn't this guy show them how to do it then? Hmmm? I have never had a heckler who was saved (they say they are saved...) take me up on the offer of showing me a better way to do things. To each his own.

I wonder how often the author witnesses? Is he even saved? You know what, I bet these "purveyors of the NT's Good News" to try more genteel ways. Our church street preaches, but we also pass out thousands upon thousands of tracts each year. We also visit homes on an individual basis. We also do one on one witnessing. The opinion of the author is one of malice and bias, I guarantee he knows not what else these preachers do, other than the hated bullhorn blast.

Quote:
As a local florist said in an apt sign: "Why crucify me?"

We are to crucify the flesh daily. What a nonsensical sign anyways.

Quote:
That local florist is Gwynn Coffee. And she is fed up with it all; it's hurting business, Coffee said, and chewing up her work day.
"It's not only putting a damper on things," she said, "it's also taking up my time. Nobody really wants to walk on that side of the street when they're there."
So what does she think Jesus would do? "He'd look down and say, 'That's not what I meant,' " she said. " 'You're misrepresenting me.' "

Riiiiiight.

Quote:
Larry Rosenbaum of the ministries group doesn't see it that way. He said they're just there "to share the gospel of Jesus Christ."
But he does admit it's an amplified message.
Rosenbaum said he doesn't mean to drive away business, just preach Biblical teachings.
And he said it's in the way of Jesus. "I think Jesus, when he was on Earth, he did preach the gospel. He was very loud, because thousands of people could hear him at one time. So he must've been loud with his voice."

Amen, any problems here?

Quote:
Yeah, maybe so, but Rosenbaum and his ilk ain't Jesus. They're not turning water into wine; they're not raising the dead; they're not casting demons into pigs. He and his colleague apostles are just annoying the hell out of everyone, particularly Coffee.

Can anyone else see the truth in this wolf? Here we have some author who is ignorant of the BIble, ignorant of dipensation, ignorant of the Gospel, who uses the term "hell" out of context in an effort to be cute, all while trying to correct preachers of the Bible. Brilliant. I always get a kick out of the ignorance of those who like to argue doctrine with my pastor, as an example. Most of those who do seldom read their Bibles, seldom pray, and seldom come to church. Yet they believe themselves to be able theologians.

Quote:
"I'm a third-generation Berkeleyite," she said. "And if there's something we covet here, it's our freedom of speech. The problem is when it's so loud that me, a loud person, can't hear my customers on the phone."

Volume is relative. I don't promote PA's, but I won't denounce them until I see the situation first hand.

Quote:
Complaints have also come from Amoeba Records, which Rosenbaum finds puzzling, since they blast their own music inside the store. OK, I'll give him that. Good point.

OKay.

Quote:
He said they're usually out there just on Saturdays, but recently stepped it up to commemorate the supposedly evil "Summer of Love," the 1967 San Francisco freak-fest.

Amen.

Quote:
Coffee, who has tried to call the cops, said the preachers always turn down the decibel level by the time they arrive. So she's started a petition drive to shut them down, a very grassroots Berkeley kind of thing to do.

Riiiiight. Maybe, maybe not. Romans 3:4.

A petition, not to quiet them, nor to remove the PA's,. but to shut them down. That is certainly a very Berkeley thing to do.

Quote:
It's "so when people are out here plugging their ears, cringing, we can offer them a petition," she said.

Rosenbaum says they all play nice. "We certainly try to be considerate of the people in the area there," he said. "I'm not aware that we're driving away any business. I guess the flower woman is the most disturbed with us."
Well, yes.
So, how about this? Take away the amplification. Just talk loud as Jesus did. And all will be at peace and the meeker you are, the more of the Earth thou shall inherit.
Dan Reed is a Bay Area freelance writer. Contact us at Insight@sfchronicle.com.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../INNTRRTTC.DTL
This article appeared on page E - 2 of the San Francisco Chronicle
San Francisco Chronicle Sections MagazineStyleSportsBay AreaTravelBusinessInsightReal EstateDatebookBook ReviewsCommentarySunday DatebookNews

[Colin Stolzer]

A former Pastor/friend of mine had told me that when he visited the holy land one of the things he took note of was alot of the locations that Jesus Christ Preached to crowds from were natural ampitheaters (bowls or hollows in the terrain) He didn't need a bullhorn he had the perfect setting and he knew it because he made it.
I haven't been there but I've seen the picturtes from there trip and I would agree that the locations that Christ preached to large crowds from, his voice would have carried very well.

C

[kevinmiller]

Those people preaching are why Christians get such a bad rap. What would you think of Jehovah's Witnesses standing outside of your store scaring away customers because they have a sound system telling people they are going to hell? Don't know about you but I'd say "forget that." Christians hurt themselves more than anyone else. Something like this was happening in NC where some friends of ours live. An over-zealous church was blocking the sidewalks and accosting people in their cars at traffic lights trying to tell them to repent or go to Hell. Our friend(who is IFB) started taking a different way to work to avoid them(who were also Baptists). Pretty sad, really.

[BibleBeliever123]

Isa 58:1
Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Luke 9:49,50
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.


Ezek 33:7,8,9
7So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

9Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.


Rom 10:17
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


It could also be perceived that these people seriously believe that the heathen are on their way to an everlasting torment and torture in hell. It could make some take the message much more seriously.

[kevinmiller]

So you actually advocate Christians accosting people in their cars?
Most of the verses you posted could refer to one-on-one witnessing, though there is a proper way to witness publicly. The first verse, however, was a direct command to Isaiah, who was a prophet of God.
And, if I was one of those people, I wouldn't think that they were concerned about me, I would get defensive and go the other way. You can't reach people without love. Love does not behave itself unseemly, or rudely, which is precisely what the problem is with these people. They are yelling at people over a sound system to their offense and to the offense of the local business owners whose livelihood they are affecting without concern.

[thinkbible]

So you actually advocate Christians accosting people in their cars?
And, if I was one of those people, I wouldn't think that they were concerned about me, I would get defensive and go the other way. You can't reach people without love.

You need to spend more time in the Word of God. Read carefully the words of Jesus, Paul, Peter, and others and you will indeed see that sometimes people need to be "accosted" (your word).

By the way.. True love is caring enough for others to give them the TRUTH. It is the Word of God that saves... not mankinds love. Jesus "accosted" (again, your word) people where ever they were if they needed the Gospel.

To be clear, I'm not standing up for rude, hateful, or similar behavior. But I AM standing up for presenting the gospel clearly and plainly... even to those who happen to be sitting in their car.

[kevinmiller]

I don't know, call me crazy, but I don't see as how a Christian can get anywhere being offensive.

[thinkbible]

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

No one is saying that the Christian is to be offensive. But when the Word is preached it divides. People usually respond to it or they reject it with their own offense.

Here's what Christ Himself said:
Mt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Not very "loving" was it? To our eyes.... But man needs the truth. That's a Christ-like love.

also see verses 14 thru 24

[DaveW]

Take away the PA systems and the shops will still complain.

We never used one and we were told to move on or be arrested.
When we checked out the laws it seemd like they had been constructed to stop us.

We didn't qualify for a busking license because we weren't looking for money, and without one you can not stand in one place for more than ten minutes without breaking the law.
So we preached for ten and moved down the street and started again.

Having said all that - without seeing the actual situation - the concept of a PA system would seem offensive to me - it offends me when the shop has a PA at the front screaming all the specials at me.

The MESSAGE is offensive, but the messenger never was!

I had friend who street preached angry. What he said was Bible, but his manner was offensive.
I eventually stopped going out with him because it didn't honour God to have this angry man yelling at people.

[IM4given]

I do not understand some people's attitudes, honestly I do not.

When the Great Awakening happened in the frontier lands of Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, and so forth - it usually began with a preacher standing on a tree stump in the middle of the town square. He would preach hell fire and brimstone and the people, rather than being annoyed, gathered around to listen. A few of them actually repented and received the gift of salvation. Then the preacher might pitch a large circus tent, and the first people who heard his message would return to the tent, night after night, with more of their friends and relatives, to hear the preacher's message. These men were true messengers from God. They were not hucksters and charlatans preying on people for their own personal profit. They had a genuine sorrow for lost souls, and an urgent message to deliver to as many people as would gather around to hear it. It was something the likes of which this country had never seen before and have never seen since!

From these tent revivals and stump preachers came forth all the little churches that now dot the hills and valleys. Places like Elk Lick Baptist Church and Deer Creek Baptist Church - they are not magnificent massive structures filled to overflowing with people who gasp everytime the word "sin" is even mentioned. These are not churches that expect to be pacified by a contemporary entertainment program on Sunday. These pastors do not even have a PhD in Marketing. These are the little churches that have been going for generations that are filled to overflowing three times a week and then some, for people who are thirsty to hear the true word of God, and who love the Lord.

I think the people of Berkley who complain about street preachers are fools. I mean that in the most Biblical sense of the word too - [bible]fools[/bible] who do not have any fear of the Lord. Our country is in dire need of yet another Great Awakening before it is too late!

[thinkbible]

Amen and Amen!

[kevinmiller]

We can't really make a judgement call without knowing the situation personally. You can't convert someone by blocking sidewalks and businesses though. Question for thought; would a bunch of Mormons with a sound system, blocking the entrance to a Walmart where you were trying to get in and shop, while trying to hand you literature and tell you you are going to Hell, leave a positive or negative impression on you? Just think about it.

[matie-k]

It almost seems to me that street preaching is this - being salt that has lost it's savor. I don't know though. I just don't understand why people would preach outside to people who have little to no interest when there are other people who would listen to preaching in jails, homeless homes, juvy homes, kids' clubs, etc...

[kevinmiller]

That is a good point Katie, though I have a bigger problem with [i]how[/i] it is done.