Can we talk about worms w/o opening the can??

[kevinmiller]

Something "pointing us to Christ" is far too ambiguous and far too relative to be used in forming any kind of conviction or belief about something.

[bzmomo7]

Something "pointing us to Christ" is far too ambiguous and far too relative to be used in forming any kind of conviction or belief about something.

No kidding, leave out classical music, but leave in certain "Christian" rock music because it speaks of Christ? You could see a lot of people trying to justify that one. Which just goes back to why I started this thread to begin with, doesn't it? We need a distinct basis to base our discernment on...not something vague.......

[HappyChristian]

No kidding, leave out classical music, but leave in certain "Christian" rock music because it speaks of Christ? You could see a lot of people trying to justify that one. Which just goes back to why I started this thread to begin with, doesn't it? We need a distinct basis to base our discernment on...not something vague.......

Dwayne can speak for himself, I'm sure, but I don't think he meant just if it speaks of Christ...a lot of trash does that. My feeling from his question was more - does it aid us spiritually, magnifying Christ to us? It can be nebulous because of people who don't understand the difference between the Holy Spirit working and just plain emotion (edited to say - I mean people who claim that some real rocky stuff makes them "feel" closer to Christ). But it can also be a good guide for Christian music. I truly believe that the closer one draws to the Lord, the easier it will be to identify what is right...the Holy Spirit will convince, IMO.

[bzmomo7]

Dwayne can speak for himself, I'm sure, but I don't think he meant just if it speaks of Christ...a lot of trash does that. My feeling from his question was more - does it aid us spiritually, magnifying Christ to us? It can be nebulous because of people who don't understand the difference between the Holy Spirit working and just plain emotion. But it can also be a good guide for Christian music. I truly believe that the closer one draws to the Lord, the easier it will be to identify what is right...the Holy Spirit will convince, IMO.

Well, I certainly didn't mean to offend Dwayne if that is what he meant. (sorry) It is difficult when you read a phrase like the one he posted--a more conservative person would read it like you did, someone who wanted an excuse to justify listening to liberal music could use it that way too. (I'm not picking on you here Dwayne) I have seen examples of vague statements all over the net while doing some research....we need to be careful to spell it out. My daughter once asked a leader at the church about music....he said, "Stay away from anything with a beat." Well, he knew what he meant, but she didn't find it particularly helpful....see what I mean? Anyway, I really do appreciate all of the posts on this topic. It has truly been helpful...............ummmmmm, and nobody threw any "worms"!!

[Bakershalfdozen]

Classical music points me to Christ because no one but God Himself can give the talent and ability to write the music that Bach, Handel and others wrote.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Well, IMO, you know you should stay away from Rock, Rap and other genres that are obviously pagan. "Stay away from anything with a beat"? Every song has a rhythm. You don't have a true song unless you have melody, harmony and rhythm. March music has a pronounced beat but the beat is different than rock music.

Here's a personal illustration. A guy I knew in college was born again as an adult. Prior to salvation, he listened to rock and enjoyed certain rock groups. A friend of mine befriended this young man in order to mentor and teach him but didn't shove anything down his throat. My friend and this young man happened to go into a "Christian" bookstore one day and there was a life size cardboard cutout of a famous "Christian" group. The newly saved young man took one look at that and said, "They don't look any different from what I used to listen to." :ideas:

My criteria is this: if it looks and sounds like the unsaved, pagan world, I don't listen to it. Now that leaves plenty of categories that are just fine in their own right.

[zealyouthguy]

I certainly can understand WHY so many Christians just throw up their hands and either surrender to "anything goes" music standards, or become music Nazi's that only goosestep to the "approved" sounds...

[kevinmiller]

I certainly can understand WHY so many Christians just throw up their hands and either surrender to "anything goes" music standards' date=' or become music Nazi's that only goosestep to the "approved" sounds...[/quote']
Huh?

[zealyouthguy]

huh?

[kevinmiller]

Oh, you're real helpful. lol

[zealyouthguy]

Oh' date=' you're real helpful. lol[/quote']
Your "huh?" was, but mine wasn't???

[kevinmiller]

Is there a rip-out-hair emo? :lol:

[zealyouthguy]

Is there a rip-out-hair emo?

and now you're calling me emo... ???


:frog

[Bakershalfdozen]

Is there a rip-out-hair emo?

[DaveW]

The problem is that the Bible doesn't say anywhere "Sting, Elton John, and the Beatles are wicked - don't listen to them"!

I think at the far end things are clear - Hard rock, metal of any kind etc is out - even if they put a Christian label onto it.
Most Rap as well is farily clear cut.

But there is a whole area that is fairly grey, and open to "interpretation".

For instance - some "classical opera" has very morally deficitent themes and stories, but many would go to them just because it is opera - it has an air of respectability about it - but it may talk of murder, adultery etc.

Most people don't even consider that side of things.

I think the full on technical side of things is over-rated as a standard.
God wouldn't make it so hard that only a music major can know what music is right.
That is not to say they are wrong, but I think the answer is more easily discerned than a 3 year degree. Listen to them for a certainty for I sure it is elevant, but what do you do when you don't have one on hand.
And I am sure God extends His grace in these situations.

I for one ahve my own preferences for musical style, which influence me, but the difference I have discovered recently when we were given some CD's is that the music on these new CD's (well most of them :roll ) is doctrinal and Christ centered.
There is very little "fluffy" words among them and in fact I ahve found very little (nothing comes to mind) that causes me to think - "That's not right".

In other words, the songs are almost preaching - but they are in a musical style which I enjoy.

As far as style is concerned, a very basic, and possibly slightly inadequate standard is, if the music itself takes over the main importance then you should worry about it.
The music should enhance the message not overpower it or go against it.

it should be clear as mud now........... :lol: