Patriotic songs

[John81]

If you read what the author of "Battle Hymn" wrote about that song you will discover the lines most today attribute to being about God were actually referring to Lincoln. It was also her intention throughout the song to promote the idea that Christians must do whatever necessary to usher in Paradise on earth so that Jesus would return.

[Guest Guest]

I was addressing the other issue you brought up. I am unfamiliar with the history of the other song. Do you have a link that shows what the author believes, etc.?

Here is the link to the song first questionable song mentioned: http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/h/bhymnotr.htm

and to the author's bio: http://www.cyberhymnal.org/bio/h/o/w/howe_jw.htm

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;

The whole song implies that the Gospel/kingdom of God is advanced through war.

Knowing she doesn't believe in the Deity of Christ, this is pretty horrible:

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:

What it implies is that man can achieve the same glory/transfiguration that Jesus had, because it was just God working through Jesus.

And, in this post, you show why the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is not correct through it's lyrics. I have already said I do not care for the song, and your reasons you just listed are my own. However, I still think that dropping the "banhammer" on a song because of the background of its author to be relatively dumb. If the song, in itself, is scripturally inerrant, then by all means - drop it. Then again, your interpretation could be different from others' - but that is a whole different subject, no?

Oh, here is a useful link. My question was whether or not that principle was applied across the board. Have you checked out all the authors in your hymnal (or in most hymnals, for that matter).? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.pibwo ... aper06.htm

[Jerry]

A person is not going to write a song that is contrary to what they believe - and in fact, will reflect their beliefs in some fashion. Knowing she does not believe Jesus Christ is God, then we can see her beliefs portrayed through the lyrics of various songs. Knowing she believes in a social gospel and a gospel of works, then when she refers to salvation in her various songs, we know she does not mean what the Bible means.

I am very consistent in my music - whether hymns or CCM (of which I personally reject all). Admittedly, there are a lot of hymns that I do not know the history or the authors - but when I find one that is faulty in a major way (whether by a heretic or cultist, apostate, etc. or teaches heretical doctrine), then I reject it, refuse to sing it or use it.

[Guest Guest]

A person is not going to write a song that is contrary to what they believe - and in fact, will reflect their beliefs in some fashion. Knowing she does not believe Jesus Christ is God, then we can see her beliefs portrayed through the lyrics of various songs. Knowing she believes in a social gospel and a gospel of works, then when she refers to salvation in her various songs, we know she does not mean what the Bible means.

I am very consistent in my music - whether hymns or CCM (of which I personally reject all). Admittedly, there are a lot of hymns that I do not know the history or the authors - but when I find one that is faulty in a major way (whether by a heretic or cultist, apostate, etc. or teaches heretical doctrine), then I reject it, refuse to sing it or use it.

That is a nice personal preference, but I fail to see how that opinion makes this statement "Yes, we should reject any songs that present spirituality in any form when the author is wacky spiritually." a legitimate mandate. You should, if that is your own personal standard, but that doesn't mean you are 100% right; nor does it mean that we should follow the same standard. That was my main point. You can choose to only wear black and white colors too, but that would still be a personal standard.

In closing though, are you saying that you will not sing or listen to the great hymn Crown Him with Many Crowns because of its heretical author?

[Jerry]

If I read info about the author that leads me to the conclusion that the person was a heretic or unsaved, then I will reject their songs and refuse to sing them.

You don't need to agree with my standards - however, if you are professing Bible believer, you should be striving to make sure all your music (including the authors of it) line up with the Bible) - otherwise you are contradicting yourself, and certainly not pleasing the Lord by choosing music that does not honour Him or line up with His Word.

[Guest Guest]

If I read info about the author that leads me to the conclusion that the person was a heretic or unsaved, then I will reject their songs and refuse to sing them.

You don't need to agree with my standards - however, if you are professing Bible believer, you should be striving to make sure all your music (including the authors of it) line up with the Bible) - otherwise you are contradicting yourself, and certainly not pleasing the Lord by choosing music that does not honour Him or line up with His Word.

The underlined statement would require Scriptural proof. Oh, and don't try to smokescreen your way through it by reading an abstract passage and then twisting it to fit what you mean. I know how it works...

Other than that, I agree with your post.

[Jerry]

Forget the attitude. If you don't agree, that is up to you. I am not giving any smokescreens - just standing for separation. The Bible is given to us for doctrine (what we are to believe) and for practice (the way we are to live). We are not just to read it, but to apply it to our lives.

But if you are not separated in your entertainment and video games, I am never going to expect you to agree with separation in music.

[Guest Guest]

Forget the attitude. If you don't agree, that is up to you. I am not giving any smokescreens - just standing for separation. The Bible is given to us for doctrine (what we are to believe) and for practice (the way we are to live). We are not just to read it, but to apply it to our lives.

But if you are not separated in your entertainment and video games, I am never going to expect you to agree with separation in music.

Attitude? :thumb I asked you for Scriptural support requiring the author of a song to be "fundamentally sound" in order for that song to be acceptable in a Christian's life. If you can't give any, that's fine, you can still have your opinion. I anticipated a smokescreen, just not one veiled underneath "drop the attitude". Nice change up. :smile

Who said anything about the Bible not being given for doctrine and practice (thanks for the definitions)? That is precisely why I asked for Scriptural support or proof, and since you're the one claiming the rule of thumb here - the burden of proof is upon you, not me. This is not about you or I agreeing in "separation" (whatever that means), but is more about you Scripturally being able to back up the claim that is in question (the only assertion in this thread I have questioned). It really isn't that difficult to grasp.

You have no idea what I am or am not separated in, so let's just stick to the issue at hand, shall we?