Here we go again, God doesn't love sinners.

[heartstrings]

In a video ( I watched very little of it) Ray comfort says "nowhere in scripture do you find the apostles saying 'Jesus loves you' to sinners". Actually, Ray, one of the apostles wrote this down:

Mark 10:21 "Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."

So, if God, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, inspired Brother Mark to write this for us to read, it stands to reason that God wanted us to know that God loved this particular sinner, and, knowing that the scripture also says that "God is no respecter of persons" (Romans 2:11) then it also stands to reason that God wants all sinners to know that He loves them as well. Understand that people will be eternally separated from God, in the lake of fire, if they reject God's love, but that in no way negates the love God has for sinners. I just don't get this "trend" of teaching "God hates sinners" and "God doesn't love sinners" or "God loves sinners but He also doesn't". I do know that God is not the author of confusion.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by heartstrings

[MikeWatson1]

To give sinners the chance to believe on Him is incredibly deep love.

[robmac68]

7 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

To give sinners the chance to believe on Him is incredibly deep love.

Exactly.  This is the love that God has for all.  Romans 5:8, God commendeth (established/proved) His love toward us... God showed us His love that He has for us with His son on the cross.  And now we have the chance because of this sacrifice and love.  But Mark writing that Jesus loved this person does not mean that is the message we are to give to lost sinners.  If we say that, then we also should tell them that Jesus said we can buy our way in to heaven by "sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven..." Is that the message we give to lost sinners???  

Ray comfort was correct.  Where is the verse that states the apostles told lost sinners that Jesus loves them?  

Psalm 5:5 clearly states that God hates the workers of iniquity.  Do we understand that a worker is a person?  I looked up this verse in Bible gateway and did a check on all English translations.  95% of the new per-versions actually recognize this worker as a person.  Do we?

Think of it like this.  Not all sinners are necessarily workers of iniquity.  So you have this guy you work with that seems like the most upstanding, moral person-but he is lost.  So you tell him that Jesus loves him.  Meanwhile, in his spare time, he is actually a drug dealing, child-trafficking pimp actively promoting a hedonistic world view in an on-line blog with 1 million followers.  You do not know these facts.  Would you call him a worker of iniquity?  If God considers him one and you tell him that God loves him, you just lied.  

If you tell him that God has so much love for him that His son died so that he could be saved, did you lie to him now?  No.  So what would be the better way to communicate God's love to lost sinners?

[MikeWatson1]

9 hours ago, robmac68 said:

Exactly.  This is the love that God has for all.  Romans 5:8, God commendeth (established/proved) His love toward us... God showed us His love that He has for us with His son on the cross.  And now we have the chance because of this sacrifice and love.  But Mark writing that Jesus loved this person does not mean that is the message we are to give to lost sinners.  If we say that, then we also should tell them that Jesus said we can buy our way in to heaven by "sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven..." Is that the message we give to lost sinners???  

Ray comfort was correct.  Where is the verse that states the apostles told lost sinners that Jesus loves them?  

Psalm 5:5 clearly states that God hates the workers of iniquity.  Do we understand that a worker is a person?  I looked up this verse in Bible gateway and did a check on all English translations.  95% of the new per-versions actually recognize this worker as a person.  Do we?

Think of it like this.  Not all sinners are necessarily workers of iniquity.  So you have this guy you work with that seems like the most upstanding, moral person-but he is lost.  So you tell him that Jesus loves him.  Meanwhile, in his spare time, he is actually a drug dealing, child-trafficking pimp actively promoting a hedonistic world view in an on-line blog with 1 million followers.  You do not know these facts.  Would you call him a worker of iniquity?  If God considers him one and you tell him that God loves him, you just lied.  

If you tell him that God has so much love for him that His son died so that he could be saved, did you lie to him now?  No.  So what would be the better way to communicate God's love to lost sinners?

Wasn't quite understanding you there but now getting what you are saying.  

That God doesn't love as in convert without them being convicted of their need for the Saviour first?

Edited October 6, 2023 by MikeWatson1
Wording out

[Jerry]

Before we come to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, all of us are workers of iniquity. The difference is a person who comes to the Lord turns from their life of sin; and while they still sin, they are no longer workers of iniquity as a way of life.

Romans 1-3 puts all of mankind in the same boat - there are no people that are better than others, we are all the same, all in need of the Saviour.

Romans 2:11-12 For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Romans 3:22-23 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 10:12-13 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[robmac68]

17 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

That God doesn't love as in convert without them being convicted of their need for the Saviour first?

Yes, God has love for all but we have to go through Jesus to get it. 

Romans 8: ³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

14 hours ago, Jerry said:

Romans 1-3 puts all of mankind in the same boat - there are no people that are better than others, we are all the same, all in need of the Saviour.

Romans 4: ⁷ Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

⁸ Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

We are not better than anybody else, but the saved are better off.

[robmac68]

. Proverbs 3:12

For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth

Do these verses show a difference?  If God looked at the lost the same as the saved or loved all the same, why would these verses state "for whom".  That states not all.

I have love for the kids down the street inasmuch as I don't want bad to happen to them, but I don't feed, clothe or chasten them like my own kids.  

[Jerry]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:07 AM, robmac68 said:

Yes, God has love for all but we have to go through Jesus to get it. 

Yes - to get the spiritual benefits of that love. However, God loves all mankind because of who He is, not because of who we or they are.

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 9:4-5 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee. Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Romans 5:6-8 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Jerry

[Jerry]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:14 AM, robmac68 said:

Do these verses show a difference?  If God looked at the lost the same as the saved or loved all the same, why would these verses state "for whom".  That states not all.

Ah, there - no one on these boards said what you did above. We said God loves the world - lost and saved - but His love for His children far exceeds His love for the lost - just as our love for our Saviour is supposed to be so great that in contrast our love for our family is called hate when it compares to our love for God.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

[robmac68]

On 10/6/2023 at 3:33 PM, Jerry said:

Romans 1-3 puts all of mankind in the same boat - there are no people that are better than others, we are all the same, all in need of the Saviour.

Yes, God loves all of mankind, His creation as a group.  "All in need of the Savior", yes.  When we take our first breath, we are in need of the Savior.  But as soon as we put faith in Jesus as our Savior, we are no longer in the same boat as "all of mankind".  Now we are individuals.  God does not look on individuals the same as "all of mankind".  

 

9 hours ago, Jerry said:

no one on these boards said what you did above. We said God loves the world - lost and saved - but His love for His children far exceeds His love for the lost

"For whom the Lord loveth" this quote does not state for whom the Lord has more love for.  Stating "His love for the lost" is saying He loves the lost individual just not as much as the saved. You backed this statement up with the verse about hating parents and said it was in comparison to the love we have for the Lord.  But the quote "for whom the Lord loveth" is not in comparison.  It is clearly stating there are individuals that God "loveth" and "correcteth".  Is God correcting the saved more so than the lost?  No.  This verse is making a distinction between whom the Lord correcteth and whom the Lord loveth.  Saying His love for His children exceeds His love for the lost would directly contradict the statement "for whom".  "For whom" is a distinction.  It is the object of the verb "loveth".  

[robmac68]

On 10/6/2023 at 3:33 PM, Jerry said:

Before we come to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, all of us are workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Hatest is a strong word.  It is a stative verb which usually refers to thoughts or emotions.  It requires an object.  In this verse the object is "workers".  A worker is a person.  This verse is not referring to a future occurrence such as the great white throne judgement.  People are not "workers" at the time of judgement.  Work is done.  This is here on earth and does not mean to love less.  It means hate.  

You stated that all of us are workers of iniquity before salvation.  The Bible makes it clear that God hates workers of iniquity.  So is it safe to draw a parallel between your statement and David's and say "God hates the lost"?