Soul

[Doug138]

Where do the scriptures teach that a soul is eternal?

I know a born-again soul will live eternally, that is easy enough to prove. But what about unregenerate souls? What scripture teaches they have eternal life?

Thanks, Doug

[Jerry]

There are many passages that teach that the lost's suffering in Hell is eternal - whether the passage uses the word "soul" or not.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The same Greek word is used for everlasting and eternal. Both the lost and the saved exist forever - whether in Hell or Heaven.

Ecclesiastes 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mark 9:43-48 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[Doug138]

Thank you

[Biblema]

Hi ,I just read this thread ....
But what about John 3:16 "whosoever believeth shall not PERISH but have everlasting life "
What does PERISH mean ? Doesn't it mean cesation of life ..the end completely ...
Doesn't John 3:16 teach that those who do not believe will have the opposite of everlasting life ?

[Annie]

I would agree that the use of the word "soul" is irrelevant. The Bible clearly teaches that the intangible, conscious part of man will "live" somewhere forever, along with his resurrected body.

[Biblema]

It does Annie ?
Where ?

What do you do with what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ?

What does destroy mean to you ?
And after the body and the soul are destroyed what is left ?

[Annie]

It does Annie ?
Where ?

What do you do with what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ?

What does destroy mean to you ?
And after the body and the soul are destroyed what is left ?

Maybe you missed the references Jerry listed at the beginning of this thread. If punishment/destruction/death is everlasting, then it is going on forever. Annihilation is not "everlasting punishment."

"Death" is merely "separation." Physical death is the separation of the spirit/soul from the earthly body. Spiritual death is the permanent separation of the spirit from its Creator God, the only Source of Light, Truth, and Good. As Matthew says, we should not fear those who are able to separate our souls from our bodies, but rather him who is able to separate our souls and resurrected bodies from God, the only source of Good.

[Guest Guest]

Where do the scriptures teach that a soul is eternal?

I know a born-again soul will live eternally, that is easy enough to prove. But what about unregenerate souls? What scripture teaches they have eternal life?

Thanks, Doug

Genesis 2:7...And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV 1611 AV.


BTW, modern versions will change the word "soul"...to change the diety of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus, the context is lost. This is where the confusion comes into play. :smile

[Biblema]

No I didn't miss the verses at the start of the thread but there aren't saying what you are suggesting .
I do remember reading in Genesis that the serpent said to Eve
Ye shall not surely die .(Genesis 3 :4)

And even though God said that the wages of sin is death (not eternal punishment ) ,the belief in the serpent's lie persists.

According to Jude verse 7,Sodom and Gomorrah are illustrations of eternal fire .
But all that remains of them is ashes .
This harmonizes with Malachi 4:3 which says And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
If you read verse 1 of the same shapter you will see it is referring to the final judgement of the wicked.
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah ,that fire will not be able to be put out until it burns itself out.

[Annie]

No I didn't miss the verses at the start of the thread but there aren't saying what you are suggesting .
I do remember reading in Genesis that the serpent said to Eve
Ye shall not surely die .(Genesis 3 :4)

And even though God said that the wages of sin is death (not eternal punishment ) ,the belief in the serpent's lie persists.

According to Jude verse 7,Sodom and Gomorrah are illustrations of eternal fire .
But all that remains of them is ashes .
This harmonizes with Malachi 4:3 which says And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
If you read verse 1 of the same shapter you will see it is referring to the final judgement of the wicked.
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah ,that fire will not be able to be put out until it burns itself out.

Biblema, words do have meaning. What does "eternal" mean? It means lasting forever. If you'll look again at the Jude passage, you'll see that Sodom and Gomorrah are being used as a metaphor (synecdoche, actually) for something bigger--something eternal. "Suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" is referring to what is happening to the Sodomites right now (or, depending on your eschatological perspective, what will be happening to them when hell is cast into the lake of fire), as well as to the fallen angels mentioned in the previous verse.

Yes, the bodies of the wicked will be "ashes," another metaphor given by the prophet Malachi. We know it has to be talking about physical, not spiritual, destruction, because of the reference "under the soles of your feet."

Let me just say, as one who was reared giving "proof texts" for erroneous doctrine...You cannot build doctrine on isolated verses. True doctrine is in agreement with the clear teaching of all of Scripture. Proper hermeneutics dictate that one take the clear teaching of Scripture--and the clear meaning of words--and apply it to verses that seem to contradict or vary from that doctrine. We are to interpret the unclear with the clear. The word eternal means, well, eternal or everlasting or never-ending. That which is eternal is not finite. Therefore, your interpretation of the Jude passage cannot be correct. (That's not the only reason, either--just the most obvious one.) If we say that eternal means something different, then we are saying that words have no meaning, or that words can mean whatever we want them to mean. Then, we are vulnerable to a whole host of problems.

I'd be interested in what you think those verses mentioned at the beginning of the thread are saying.

Sure, the serpent said to Eve, "You shall not surely die." That was directly opposite of what God had told her. He said that in the day they would eat of the tree, they would surely die. Did Adam and Eve become physically annihilated the minute they ate the fruit? No...but they became SEPARATED from God spiritually at that moment. Death is separation. Their spirits were separated from God's spirit; they no longer communed with Him in the garden. And, their physical bodies began the slow process of death and decay as well.

The NT tells us that unbelievers are "dead" in their sins. They are separated from a holy God. When we are saved, we become "dead to sin," or set apart from sin. We don't HAVE to sin anymore; we have God's power which enables us to live holy lives. This language abounds all through the epistles. If we take "death" to mean nothing but "physical annihilation," a whole bunch of NT passages don't make a bit of sense.

[Biblema]

Annie ,you are basing your conclusions on assumption .
This is that death = seperation .
I can't find any evidence for this .
I believe God gave His word in a way that anyone can understand it .
Death =death.
Could it be simpler than that?
Otherwise you end up where the RC is ie, you need an interpreter -in their case a priest.

If you look at Habbukuk 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

You will read that the mouintains are everlasting .This can only be true in a limited sense as the earth is only 6,000 years old.
Ditto to everlasting/eternal fire.
Annie ,your arguement re words having meaning holds true for death too.
The sinner doesn't care if he is seperated from God .
He rejects God and is already seperate from God while he lives.
By your doctrine there is no end of sinners and suffering .
According to Revelation 21:4 ,the former things will pass away ,including death and sorrow etc.

[Annie]

Annie ' date='you are basing your conclusions on assumption . This is that death = seperation .[/quote']

It might look like that, since I didn't take time to list out all of the references. I'm a bit short on time at the moment. I'd encourage you to study out every occurrence of the words eternal, everlasting, and death in the New Testament. Death simply cannot mean what you say it means and make sense in the context of how it is used in the epistles (or anywhere else, for that matter).

What do you think happens to Christians when they "die?" Why do you think that death (in the physical sense) means something different for unbelievers? According to the way the word death is used in the Bible, we can see that it is indeed a separation of body and spirit. The spirit lives on. (See the narrative of the rich man and Lazarus--it's not a parable.) This is just one of MANY examples of a person's spirit living on after death. The thing we call death is really just a separation of a person's body and spirit.



Yes, but what is death? You still haven't defined it. You could say it is the "end of life," but is it really? Is that what the Bible teaches? We all (believers and nonbelievers alike) die, agreed?




Yes, this is poetic speech. You can tell this by the personification employed: "The perpetual hills did bow."

According to your definition of "everlasting," it only means "unending" when applied to a believer in Christ. That's an inconsistent way of looking at it.



You are confusing poetic speech with narrative and other text that is obviously meant to be taken literally. Using your approach to hermeneutics, we can "know" that God has feathers and wings (Psalms), and that He is literally a rock or tower to which we run and hide. God is a shepherd; Jesus is bread and water, but also somehow a door.



You are correct; sinners do not care if they are separated from God spiritually. They don't know that He is showing them mercy even now as they reject Him. They do experience His common grace (the rain falls on the just and the unjust; He shows goodness to all on the earth) during their earthly life. This will not be true in the lake of fire. God and all of His grace will be completely and utterly removed from every aspect of their experience. No more enjoying the blessings of life they enjoyed on earth. No more exposure to all that was good and pleasant because of God's sustaining hand upon the earth.



To whom is Revelation written? The answer to this question will reveal for whom the former things, including death and sorrow, will pass away. The believer in Christ on earth will enjoy intimate communion with God for eternity...no more death (separation from Him), either physically or spiritually.

Hey, this is going to have to be my last post for a while on this thread...I really would encourage you to study the Scripture without any preconceived notions. Do a study on the words I mentioned, noting the context of each one. I think you'll begin to see a bigger picture emerging than what you have seen so far.

[Biblema]

Annihilation is eternal punishment .There is no return from it . Its results last forever .
The trouble with modern education is does away with the plain words of God and gives them a mystical meaning .
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

Don't carry your creed to the Bible, and read it in the light of that creed. If you find that your opinions are opposed to a plain "Thus saith the Lord," or to any command or warning He has given, give heed to the Word of God rather than to the sayings of men. Let every controversy or dispute be settled by "It is written."

Let your heart be softened and subdued by the spirit of prayer before you read the Bible. Truth will triumph when the spirit of truth cooperates with the humble Bible student. How precious the thought that the Author of truth still lives and reigns. Ask Him to impress your minds with the truth. Your searching of the Scriptures will then be worthwhile. Christ is the great Teacher of His followers, and He will not leave you to walk in darkness.

[Guest Guest]

"Revelation 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Notice, the beast and the false prophet were STILL in the lake of fire even though they had been thrown in a thousand years earlier. They did not cease to exist... Also notice it says "and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Hard to be tormented if you no longer exist... And don't say that "and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." is only for Satan, because the beast and the false prophet were still there and they are men...

[Biblema]

Do you take all of Revelation literally ?
Then why not Malachi 4 ?
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

Here it says that they will burn up.