Does a sinner changes heart from loving sin to loving God when he repents and believes?

[mbkjpreacher]

We love him, because he first loved us.
(1 John 4:19)
 

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(Romans 2:4)
 

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
(Galatians 5:6)
 

[BrotherTony]

4 hours ago, mbkjpreacher said:

We love him, because he first loved us.
(1 John 4:19)
 

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(Romans 2:4)
 

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
(Galatians 5:6)
 

To answer your header...the Bible says that when a person is converted, they become a new creation, the old things are passed away, and all things become new. If the conversion was genuine, then the person has the Spirit of God living inside of them, and they will start to see their sinful ways differently. Some have an instantaneous change. Others change over a period of time. If you're speaking of "Lordship salvation," I don't see this happen very often. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but the cases are few and far between in my experience.

[mbkjpreacher]

57 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

To answer your header...the Bible says that when a person is converted, they become a new creation, the old things are passed away, and all things become new. If the conversion was genuine, then the person has the Spirit of God living inside of them, and they will start to see their sinful ways differently. Some have an instantaneous change. Others change over a period of time. If you're speaking of "Lordship salvation," I don't see this happen very often. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but the cases are few and far between in my experience.

I am sorry brother but you have missed the point of the question.  My question is at the moment when they repent and believe.   Is it your proposition that when they repent and believe there is hatred for God in their heart and that love for God is felt after they are saved?  Or love and faith goes together at the point of understanding the gospel and  faith?  

This is what I want to clarify, LOVE and FAITH goes together when the sinner believes in Christ or HATRED FOR GOD AND FAITH goes together at the point he believes? 

[BrotherTony]

10 minutes ago, mbkjpreacher said:

I am sorry brother but you have missed the point of the question.  My question is at the moment when they repent and believe.   Is it your proposition that when they repent and believe there is hatred for God in their heart and that love for God is felt after they are saved?  Or love and faith goes together at the point of understanding the gospel and  faith?  

This is what I want to clarify, LOVE and FAITH goes together when the sinner believes in Christ or HATRED FOR GOD AND FAITH goes together at the point he believes? 

I got the meaning of your question...but there again...love may not be automatic. I would hope it would be, but, it's not always the case. Love usually grows gradually...it's not necessarily a given that it will happen automatically.

[mbkjpreacher]

20 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I got the meaning of your question...but there again...love may not be automatic. I would hope it would be, but, it's not always the case. Love usually grows gradually...it's not necessarily a given that it will happen automatically.

Is it your position that the unsaved person cannot respond in humility and love when he understands the gospel and believes?   Or should he be saved first before he can humble and believe with love?  

How can you explain faith which worketh by love?  

Would a person trust Jesus yet in his heart there is hatred for Him?  

Can't man have the ability to change mind from hatred of the gospel truth to love of the gospel truth prior to salvation?  

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, mbkjpreacher said:

Is it your position that the unsaved person cannot respond in humility and love when he understands the gospel and believes?

Not at all. The person has to respond in humility when they are saved. I've known people who got saved but didn't fully "love" (you might want to explain your definition of love for reference sake) Jesus Christ when they accepted him as savior. They didn't fully understand who he was at that time. Their "love" for him grew over time as they grew.

  Or should he be saved first before he can humble and believe with love? Again, the humble acceptance of Christ as savior, IMHO, is a must. If there is no humility, there is no need for a savior. Admitting one is a sinner and in need of a savior takes humility. Again...read above for love and the growth of it...some may love Christ immediately...others may have some sort of love for him, but not a love that is strong.  

How can you explain faith which worketh by love?  A strong faith will build over time as one grows in their love for the Lord. Faith increases over time. Again, some may have it fully, or near fully immediately. Others will have their faith grow over time (we all do, but some much more than others). 

Would a person trust Jesus yet in his heart there is hatred for Him? I don't believe this is a possiblity. 

Can't man have the ability to change mind from hatred of the gospel truth to love of the gospel truth prior to salvation?  I believe there has to be a certain degree of love for a person to receive Christ.  

 

[mbkjpreacher]

 

Is it your position that the unsaved person cannot respond in humility and love when he understands the gospel and believes?

Quote

Not at all. The person has to respond in humility when they are saved. I've known people who got saved but didn't fully "love" (you might want to explain your definition of love for reference sake) Jesus Christ when they accepted him as savior. They didn't fully understand who he was at that time. Their "love" for him grew over time as they grew.

I do not mean of love as mature love or perfect love ( 1 John 4: 18).  At least there is love or initial love as I John 4: 19 says we love Him because He first loved us.  It is by the understanding of God's love that influences the intellect and moves the emotion to love God, for if a person does not understand the love of God, he would not accept the Lord Jesus. Just like a woman would not accept the love of a man if she does not understand it.  But when her heart seem to melt because of the love of the man, that she respond in love.  And there is a saying that love and trust go together.  Usually when a girl falls in love with a man, she gives so much trust in him that she would even disobey her parents.  How much more is the love of God, understood by the gospel message, that our hearts are moved to believe because of the fact of our condemnation and the fact of God's love so great.  We love him because he first loved us -- This happens at the point of understanding the gospel, which leads to repentance and faith (Romans 2: 4).  If there is no love at the point of faith in Christ, that would only fall to mere belief and profession.  Just as a child won't buy ice cream if he does not love it.  It is true that as faith has to grow to mature so love needs to grow to mature also.  But at least there is initial love when he believes and understood the gospel.  If the idea is that some men love God prior to understanding the gospel, then that idea disagrees with 1 John 4: 19 which states that we love him because he first loved us.  Therefore there is a turning point in man's mind and heart from loving sin to loving God, from unbelief to belief in Christ, and that is repentance of sin.  

 

 

  Or should he be saved first before he can humble and believe with love? Again, the humble acceptance of Christ as savior, IMHO, is a must. If there is no humility, there is no need for a savior. Admitting one is a sinner and in need of a savior takes humility. Again...read above for love and the growth of it...some may love Christ immediately...others may have some sort of love for him, but not a love that is strong.  

Yes true that humility, faith, and love, can be exercised prior to salvation under the Spirit's conviction and the word.  Calvinism teaches that the unregenerate cannot hear, repent, and believe prior to regeneration and that is a different story.  My point is that there is that initial love, a change of mind and heart from loving sin to loving God at the point of understanding the gospel message at the moment he believes.. His knowledge of the truth moves his emotion to trust Christ.  

How can you explain faith which worketh by love?  A strong faith will build over time as one grows in their love for the Lord. Faith increases over time. Again, some may have it fully, or near fully immediately. Others will have their faith grow over time (we all do, but some much more than others). 

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
(Galatians 5:5-6)
 

If you would look at the context it is not about growing in faith as a Christian but righteousness by faith, and this is about salvation.  So the faith here refers to faith exercised in salvation and that it works by love.  This is related to 1 John 4: 19 we love him because he first loved us.  That means when he exercised faith, there is love in it, not bitterness or hatred.  Though we are not saved by love or humility.  We are saved by faith, yet there is an element of humility and love when we exercised faith in Christ.  

 

 

 

Would a person trust Jesus yet in his heart there is hatred for Him? I don't believe this is a possiblity. 

Right 

Can't man have the ability to change mind from hatred of the gospel truth to love of the gospel truth prior to salvation?  I believe there has to be a certain degree of love for a person to receive Christ.  

Amen, we agree in this position.  

[BrotherTony]

mb...I think we agree in all positions...you are trying to read into my answers that there is no initial love...It's pretty clear that I've implied that there IS an initial love, otherwise there could be NO decision for Christ. I stated that the love had to grow over time...it can't grow if there is NO initial love. This is one problem I had with the "Missionary Baptists." They deal too much in hypotheticals instead of strictly on the Word of God. There are many good people in the group, but, they are usually trying to read into people's statements what they want. A Biblical group can't survive that way.