Are Rock and Country/Western music wrong?

[Pastor Matt]

35 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Years ago I had a friend who almost did not continue to attend church and become a Christian because of this hymn. The opening line, "There is a fountain filled with blood" almost made her throw up and there is no theological truth in that line. Indeed, it is an untrue statement. 

I hope you're not take that fountain as a literal fountain. Anyways this would be another topic if you wish to answer and talk about hymns that are not "Theologically" correct

[Bouncing Bill]

55 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

I hope you're not take that fountain as a literal fountain. Anyways this would be another topic if you wish to answer and talk about hymns that are not "Theologically" correct

Literal, no ... but the statement is bad theology. There is no truth in it. 

In fact, the entire hymn is full of heresy. 

So, does your church sing this hymn? Would you support having it sung in a worship service? 

[Pastor Matt]

6 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Literal, no ... but the statement is bad theology. There is no truth in it. 

In fact, the entire hymn is full of heresy. 

So, does your church sing this hymn? Would you support having it sung in a worship service? 

I repeat.......Anyways this would be another topic if you wish to answer and talk about hymns that are not "Theologically" correct

[BrotherTony]

6 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Rather like the discussion about eating meat offered to idols in the New Testament.

Not really...meat is not something "sensual" in nature. It doesn't affect the body with a driving beat...it doesn't affect the emotions instead of the spirit as music does. The adversary knows what he is doing in the area of music. Doesn't the Bible tell us to sing to ourselves in "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs?" When we are using music in the church services, shouldn't we be using music that affects us in a POSITIVE spiritual manner instead of negatively affecting us, as most studies have shown that music with a driving, sensual beat does? Read the book I mentioned above. Also, talk to many people in the music industry as I have, and listen to how they say that they are surrounded by spirits moving them in certain ways. John Mellencamp is one. James Brown was another. Dan Fogelberg, Bobby Helms (he sang "Jingle Bell Rock" and "Frauline" in the 50s and is a relative of mine), and many others have all said the same thing. Ask any music professor at most IFB colleges. They'll give you the same information on how today's music isn't scriptural. I'm not saying whether or not this is my standing. I'm just saying that this is something that has been brought to my attention several times over the past 40 years. 

[Bouncing Bill]

2 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Not really...meat is not something "sensual" in nature. It doesn't affect the body with a driving beat...it doesn't affect the emotions instead of the spirit as music does. The adversary knows what he is doing in the area of music. Doesn't the Bible tell us to sing to ourselves in "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs?" When we are using music in the church services, shouldn't we be using music that affects us in a POSITIVE spiritual manner instead of negatively affecting us, as most studies have shown that music with a driving, sensual beat does? Read the book I mentioned above. Also, talk to many people in the music industry as I have, and listen to how they say that they are surrounded by spirits moving them in certain ways. John Mellencamp is one. James Brown was another. Dan Fogelberg, Bobby Helms (he sang "Jingle Bell Rock" and "Frauline" in the 50s and is a relative of mine), and many others have all said the same thing. Ask any music professor at most IFB colleges. They'll give you the same information on how today's music isn't scriptural. I'm not saying whether or not this is my standing. I'm just saying that this is something that has been brought to my attention several times over the past 40 years. 

Music can be very  sensual. Music can change moods. Compare a funeral dirge with a a John Phillips Souza march. One is depressing the other makes puts us in a happy mood. 

What references in the Bible do you use to determine if the music is scriptural or not?

[Musician4God1611]

4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Do you sing hymns that contain bad theology? Hymns such as:

1. I'll Fly Away
2. Bring Them In
3.  He Lives
4. Softly and Tenderly Jesus is Calling
5. Away in the Manager

All these hymn I've listed I have loved. But I have grown and realize there is one or more theological problems with each hymn.

The one hymn I really do not like is: 

There is a Fountain

Years ago I had a friend who almost did not continue to attend church and become a Christian because of this hymn. The opening line, "There is a fountain filled with blood" almost made her throw up and there is no theological truth in that line. Indeed, it is an untrue statement. 

I do not sing hymns that contain bad theology. That being said, many people disagree about what theology is and isn't sound. I look forward to seeing a separate thread about this, because I'm curious to know what about some of these you say is bad theology. It's really baffling. 

[Bouncing Bill]

34 minutes ago, Musician4God1611 said:

I do not sing hymns that contain bad theology. That being said, many people disagree about what theology is and isn't sound. I look forward to seeing a separate thread about this, because I'm curious to know what about some of these you say is bad theology. It's really baffling. 

They all contain myths, untruths, and misleading theology. I will start a new thread.

 

[BrotherTony]

4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Music can be very  sensual. Music can change moods. Compare a funeral dirge with a a John Phillips Souza march. One is depressing the other makes puts us in a happy mood. 

What references in the Bible do you use to determine if the music is scriptural or not?

Music in the worship of God is not to be sensual...it's not supposed to arouse the flesh, but the spirit. Some of the verse used are

Ephesians 5:19  “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;”

Matthew 26:30 “And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.”

There are also verses that say that whatever we do should be done to the glory of God. I personally don't believe that one can use sensual, devil styles music to worship the Lord. It comes again to having just that little bit of leaven leavening the whole lump. There are numerous other points that could be made, but at the present I don't have time to present them.

 

 

[Bouncing Bill]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Music in the worship of God is not to be sensual...it's not supposed to arouse the flesh, but the spirit. Some of the verse used are

Ephesians 5:19  “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;”

Matthew 26:30 “And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.”

There are also verses that say that whatever we do should be done to the glory of God. I personally don't believe that one can use sensual, devil styles music to worship the Lord. It comes again to having just that little bit of leaven leavening the whole lump. There are numerous other points that could be made, but at the present I don't have time to present them.

 

 

Sensual is not restricted to flesh. To me some sacred music is very sensual, uplifting my spirit toward God. I consider that very sensual and it is sensual in a good, positive way.

[Musician4God1611]

1 hour ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Sensual is not restricted to flesh. To me some sacred music is very sensual, uplifting my spirit toward God. I consider that very sensual and it is sensual in a good, positive way.

Actually, sensual is restricted to the flesh. The definition of sensual is, "pertaining to the senses, as distinct from the mind or soul" (Webster's 1828). If it is distinct from the mind or soul, it's of the flesh. I would identify that your trouble in perceiving this subject is summed up in the phrase you keep repeating, "to me". When it comes to truth, opinions do not matter. "To me" doesn't come into play.

[BrotherTony]

9 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Sensual is not restricted to flesh. To me some sacred music is very sensual, uplifting my spirit toward God. I consider that very sensual and it is sensual in a good, positive way.

It's a very different kind of sensual, and I'm pretty sure you're not obtuse enough to believe what you just stated. If you are, I feel sorry for you. Seems to me that all you want to do is argue. Proof? You've followed every thread I post on disagreeing with everything I have stated. I believe my interaction with you needs to be terminated for both our sakes. Have a nice day.

[Bouncing Bill]

2 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

It's a very different kind of sensual, and I'm pretty sure you're not obtuse enough to believe what you just stated. If you are, I feel sorry for you. Seems to me that all you want to do is argue. Proof? You've followed every thread I post on disagreeing with everything I have stated. I believe my interaction with you needs to be terminated for both our sakes. Have a nice day.

Sorry to see you will stop discussing with me. There is no reasons friends cannot disagree. I had a good friend where I worked years ago. We disagreed on almost everything, but had great times talking. I respected his intelligence as he made me think. He told me one time, "I feel around the edge of the cup of your beliefs trying to find a crack. But when I approach the core you clamp down and do not a bend."

It is no fun talking with only those who agree with me. Nothing can be learned when we talk to only those who agree with us. I enjoy rolling ideas, especially new ideas around in my head and at time have to modify my previously held opinion. 

In honesty, and I say this very gently and with respect, I believe you view is too narrow and refuse to entertain new ideas that may lead you to a deeper understanding. Now, I am old and have been around the barn numerous times. God has blessed me with extensive travel and interacting with numerous peoples and cultures has taught me that a broader view must be taken on many subjects to reach people. This does not mean compromise my religious beliefs. But it does mean being gentle with people. 

Blessings to your and yours. I wish you well in all you do. 

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Sorry to see you will stop discussing with me. There is no reasons friends cannot disagree. I had a good friend where I worked years ago. We disagreed on almost everything, but had great times talking. I respected his intelligence as he made me think. He told me one time, "I feel around the edge of the cup of your beliefs trying to find a crack. But when I approach the core you clamp down and do not a bend."

It is no fun talking with only those who agree with me. Nothing can be learned when we talk to only those who agree with us. I enjoy rolling ideas, especially new ideas around in my head and at time have to modify my previously held opinion. 

In honesty, and I say this very gently and with respect, I believe you view is too narrow and refuse to entertain new ideas that may lead you to a deeper understanding. Now, I am old and have been around the barn numerous times. God has blessed me with extensive travel and interacting with numerous peoples and cultures has taught me that a broader view must be taken on many subjects to reach people. This does not mean compromise my religious beliefs. But it does mean being gentle with people. 

Blessings to your and yours. I wish you well in all you do. 

BB, it's not the "disagreeing" that I have a problem with. It is that you disagree with everything I say, and seem to follow me around to do it. That's not a healthy thing. Seems like you intentionally do so, and that's called stalking. I don't like that kind of thing, and I won't put up with it. If you can come to your senses and stop being so obstinate, I can communicate with you. I'm not asking for total agreement. Opinions are like heads....everybody has one. I can handle that. But, as I stated, you're intentionally being disagreeable with everything I post. That's indicative of someone who's TRYING to be disagreeable. Get real and grow up.

 Otherwise, this is the end of my communication with you. The Bible tells us about communicating with people who act like this, and I'm going to side with the Bible over anyone's opinion. Period.

Edited July 6, 2021 by BrotherTony

[BrotherTony]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:34 AM, Hugh_Flower said:

Eh. I think this is an issue people become Pharisees about. I do not believe it’s good to listen to music purely devoted to romance, or drugs which is most music for time millennium  but also I do not think listening to slice of life music is bad. I do listen to mostly Christian music, but a good slice of life song is better than a bad Christian rock song or whatever is on the ‘Christian radio’ 

Do you believe the "slice of life" type music should be a part of the worship service? If so, how in the world does it fit in with the worship of our Lord and Savior. Believe me, I know that many can become pharisaical about this issue, not allowing anything with drums, guitar or other instruments into the church. I don't agree with that stance in any way, shape or form. I do disagree with it being taken to an extreme where it is so rocky or hyped up to appeal to the flesh over the spirit. Please, explain what YOU mean by "slice of life.: How do YOU define it. Seems very subjective to me.

[Bouncing Bill]

19 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Do you believe the "slice of life" type music should be a part of the worship service? If so, how in the world does it fit in with the worship of our Lord and Savior. Believe me, I know that many can become pharisaical about this issue, not allowing anything with drums, guitar or other instruments into the church. I don't agree with that stance in any way, shape or form. I do disagree with it being taken to an extreme where it is so rocky or hyped up to appeal to the flesh over the spirit. Please, explain what YOU mean by "slice of life.: How do YOU define it. Seems very subjective to me.

I have no idea what is meant by "slice of life." Please enlighten me.

No, I am not following you around. I simply replied when I saw something interesting and we engaged in discussion. 

I can learn nothing if I do not ask questions.