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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
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      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Are Rock and Country/Western music wrong?

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BrotherTony
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Do you sing hymns that contain bad theology? Hymns such as:

  1. I'll Fly Away
  2. Bring Them In
  3.  He Lives
  4. Softly and Tenderly Jesus is Calling
  5. Away in the Manager

All these hymn I've listed I have loved. But I have grown and realize there is one or more theological problems with each hymn.

The one hymn I really do not like is: 

There is a Fountain

Years ago I had a friend who almost did not continue to attend church and become a Christian because of this hymn. The opening line, "There is a fountain filled with blood" almost made her throw up and there is no theological truth in that line. Indeed, it is an untrue statement. 

I do not sing hymns that contain bad theology. That being said, many people disagree about what theology is and isn't sound. I look forward to seeing a separate thread about this, because I'm curious to know what about some of these you say is bad theology. It's really baffling. 

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34 minutes ago, Musician4God1611 said:

I do not sing hymns that contain bad theology. That being said, many people disagree about what theology is and isn't sound. I look forward to seeing a separate thread about this, because I'm curious to know what about some of these you say is bad theology. It's really baffling. 

They all contain myths, untruths, and misleading theology. I will start a new thread.

 

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4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Music can be very  sensual. Music can change moods. Compare a funeral dirge with a a John Phillips Souza march. One is depressing the other makes puts us in a happy mood. 

What references in the Bible do you use to determine if the music is scriptural or not?

Music in the worship of God is not to be sensual...it's not supposed to arouse the flesh, but the spirit. Some of the verse used are

Ephesians 5:19  “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;”

Matthew 26:30 “And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.”

There are also verses that say that whatever we do should be done to the glory of God. I personally don't believe that one can use sensual, devil styles music to worship the Lord. It comes again to having just that little bit of leaven leavening the whole lump. There are numerous other points that could be made, but at the present I don't have time to present them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Music in the worship of God is not to be sensual...it's not supposed to arouse the flesh, but the spirit. Some of the verse used are

Ephesians 5:19  “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;”

Matthew 26:30 “And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.”

There are also verses that say that whatever we do should be done to the glory of God. I personally don't believe that one can use sensual, devil styles music to worship the Lord. It comes again to having just that little bit of leaven leavening the whole lump. There are numerous other points that could be made, but at the present I don't have time to present them.

 

 

Sensual is not restricted to flesh. To me some sacred music is very sensual, uplifting my spirit toward God. I consider that very sensual and it is sensual in a good, positive way.

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1 hour ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Sensual is not restricted to flesh. To me some sacred music is very sensual, uplifting my spirit toward God. I consider that very sensual and it is sensual in a good, positive way.

Actually, sensual is restricted to the flesh. The definition of sensual is, "pertaining to the senses, as distinct from the mind or soul" (Webster's 1828). If it is distinct from the mind or soul, it's of the flesh. I would identify that your trouble in perceiving this subject is summed up in the phrase you keep repeating, "to me". When it comes to truth, opinions do not matter. "To me" doesn't come into play.

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9 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Sensual is not restricted to flesh. To me some sacred music is very sensual, uplifting my spirit toward God. I consider that very sensual and it is sensual in a good, positive way.

It's a very different kind of sensual, and I'm pretty sure you're not obtuse enough to believe what you just stated. If you are, I feel sorry for you. Seems to me that all you want to do is argue. Proof? You've followed every thread I post on disagreeing with everything I have stated. I believe my interaction with you needs to be terminated for both our sakes. Have a nice day.

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2 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

It's a very different kind of sensual, and I'm pretty sure you're not obtuse enough to believe what you just stated. If you are, I feel sorry for you. Seems to me that all you want to do is argue. Proof? You've followed every thread I post on disagreeing with everything I have stated. I believe my interaction with you needs to be terminated for both our sakes. Have a nice day.

Sorry to see you will stop discussing with me. There is no reasons friends cannot disagree. I had a good friend where I worked years ago. We disagreed on almost everything, but had great times talking. I respected his intelligence as he made me think. He told me one time, "I feel around the edge of the cup of your beliefs trying to find a crack. But when I approach the core you clamp down and do not a bend."

It is no fun talking with only those who agree with me. Nothing can be learned when we talk to only those who agree with us. I enjoy rolling ideas, especially new ideas around in my head and at time have to modify my previously held opinion. 

In honesty, and I say this very gently and with respect, I believe you view is too narrow and refuse to entertain new ideas that may lead you to a deeper understanding. Now, I am old and have been around the barn numerous times. God has blessed me with extensive travel and interacting with numerous peoples and cultures has taught me that a broader view must be taken on many subjects to reach people. This does not mean compromise my religious beliefs. But it does mean being gentle with people. 

Blessings to your and yours. I wish you well in all you do. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Sorry to see you will stop discussing with me. There is no reasons friends cannot disagree. I had a good friend where I worked years ago. We disagreed on almost everything, but had great times talking. I respected his intelligence as he made me think. He told me one time, "I feel around the edge of the cup of your beliefs trying to find a crack. But when I approach the core you clamp down and do not a bend."

It is no fun talking with only those who agree with me. Nothing can be learned when we talk to only those who agree with us. I enjoy rolling ideas, especially new ideas around in my head and at time have to modify my previously held opinion. 

In honesty, and I say this very gently and with respect, I believe you view is too narrow and refuse to entertain new ideas that may lead you to a deeper understanding. Now, I am old and have been around the barn numerous times. God has blessed me with extensive travel and interacting with numerous peoples and cultures has taught me that a broader view must be taken on many subjects to reach people. This does not mean compromise my religious beliefs. But it does mean being gentle with people. 

Blessings to your and yours. I wish you well in all you do. 

BB, it's not the "disagreeing" that I have a problem with. It is that you disagree with everything I say, and seem to follow me around to do it. That's not a healthy thing. Seems like you intentionally do so, and that's called stalking. I don't like that kind of thing, and I won't put up with it. If you can come to your senses and stop being so obstinate, I can communicate with you. I'm not asking for total agreement. Opinions are like heads....everybody has one. I can handle that. But, as I stated, you're intentionally being disagreeable with everything I post. That's indicative of someone who's TRYING to be disagreeable. Get real and grow up.

 Otherwise, this is the end of my communication with you. The Bible tells us about communicating with people who act like this, and I'm going to side with the Bible over anyone's opinion. Period.

Edited by BrotherTony
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On 7/4/2021 at 1:34 AM, Hugh_Flower said:

Eh. I think this is an issue people become Pharisees about. I do not believe it’s good to listen to music purely devoted to romance, or drugs which is most music for time millennium  but also I do not think listening to slice of life music is bad. I do listen to mostly Christian music, but a good slice of life song is better than a bad Christian rock song or whatever is on the ‘Christian radio’ 

Do you believe the "slice of life" type music should be a part of the worship service? If so, how in the world does it fit in with the worship of our Lord and Savior. Believe me, I know that many can become pharisaical about this issue, not allowing anything with drums, guitar or other instruments into the church. I don't agree with that stance in any way, shape or form. I do disagree with it being taken to an extreme where it is so rocky or hyped up to appeal to the flesh over the spirit. Please, explain what YOU mean by "slice of life.: How do YOU define it. Seems very subjective to me.

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19 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Do you believe the "slice of life" type music should be a part of the worship service? If so, how in the world does it fit in with the worship of our Lord and Savior. Believe me, I know that many can become pharisaical about this issue, not allowing anything with drums, guitar or other instruments into the church. I don't agree with that stance in any way, shape or form. I do disagree with it being taken to an extreme where it is so rocky or hyped up to appeal to the flesh over the spirit. Please, explain what YOU mean by "slice of life.: How do YOU define it. Seems very subjective to me.

I have no idea what is meant by "slice of life." Please enlighten me.

No, I am not following you around. I simply replied when I saw something interesting and we engaged in discussion. 

I can learn nothing if I do not ask questions. 

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13 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I have no idea what is meant by "slice of life." Please enlighten me.

No, I am not following you around. I simply replied when I saw something interesting and we engaged in discussion. 

I can learn nothing if I do not ask questions. 

Please re-read Brother Tony's post. He was asking Hugh_Flowers what "Slice of Life" meant. Hugh_Flowers will be the one you'll want to ask 

I can't speak for Brother Tony, but this may be why he feels the way he does about his interactions. 

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19 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

Please re-read Brother Tony's post. He was asking Hugh_Flowers what "Slice of Life" meant. Hugh_Flowers will be the one you'll want to ask 

I can't speak for Brother Tony, but this may be why he feels the way he does about his interactions. 

I am curious to learn what is mean by that phrase. That is why I answered. Can you enlighten me?

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16 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I am curious to learn what is mean by that phrase. That is why I answered. Can you enlighten me?

Why did you quote me and then ask me after I mentioned to you that hugh_floweres is the one that used that term? How can I or Brother Tony answer your question when we are not the ones that used the term initially? 

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14 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

Why did you quote me and then ask me after I mentioned to you that hugh_floweres is the one that used that term? How can I or Brother Tony answer your question when we are not the ones that used the term initially? 

I thought you might know the meaning of the phrase. 

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4 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Do you believe the "slice of life" type music should be a part of the worship service? If so, how in the world does it fit in with the worship of our Lord and Savior. Believe me, I know that many can become pharisaical about this issue, not allowing anything with drums, guitar or other instruments into the church. I don't agree with that stance in any way, shape or form. I do disagree with it being taken to an extreme where it is so rocky or hyped up to appeal to the flesh over the spirit. Please, explain what YOU mean by "slice of life.: How do YOU define it. Seems very subjective to me.

Hey! Yeah, Of course it is, if we want to be literal it’s just a term I nominate over a certain type of music that I feel meets it threshold. I’ll give examples. 
A good song about a slice of life would be “Fish and Whistle” by John Prine. A bad slice of life song would be “Dixieland Delight” by Alabama. ( it’s good just very much a carnal song ) 

Now, these songs are not ever to be used for worship or church service, but I’d say on a long drive, I’ll put some songs like Fish and Whistle in my playlist that is full of Christian songs. I’d have no problem if a kid was listening to Fish and whistle, while humming along.

Now there is just two examples but they are perfect for an illustration of what I mean. I hope you know the two songs or listen to them to see what I mean. 
 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Hugh_Flower said:

Hey! Yeah, Of course it is, if we want to be literal it’s just a term I nominate over a certain type of music that I feel meets it threshold. I’ll give examples. 
A good song about a slice of life would be “Fish and Whistle” by John Prine. A bad slice of life song would be “Dixieland Delight” by Alabama. ( it’s good just very much a carnal song ) 

Now, these songs are not ever to be used for worship or church service, but I’d say on a long drive, I’ll put some songs like Fish and Whistle in my playlist that is full of Christian songs. I’d have no problem if a kid was listening to Fish and whistle, while humming along.

Now there is just two examples but they are perfect for an illustration of what I mean. I hope you know the two songs or listen to them to see what I mean. 
 

 

 

 

I can see some "slice of life" music being used for personal enjoyment. I know when I was attending Maranatha Baptist Bible College in 1982, Dr. Cedarholm allowed "North To Alaska" and one or two other secular songs. A lot of the music was starting to get raunchy during my teen and early twenties, and I could see his point in limiting what was acceptable. I was raised liking music from Dolly Parton, Jerry Reed, Elvis Presley, and many other Country and Western, and Rock singers. I have a few of those in my family's past and present. 😉  My little brother is an entertainer in the Cincinnatti area and has won "Entertainer of the Year" there three years in a row. He was with the Eden Park Band, and is a solo singer, songwriter as well. But, I still believe as Christians, being a part of a "royal priesthood" and "set apart from the world," that we should be ever cognizant of the Bible's lessons of "a little leaven leaventh the whole lump," and the command for us to be "unspotted by the world." It sometimes is a hard line to call.

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29 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

I can see some "slice of life" music being used for personal enjoyment. I know when I was attending Maranatha Baptist Bible College in 1982, Dr. Cedarholm allowed "North To Alaska" and one or two other secular songs. A lot of the music was starting to get raunchy during my teen and early twenties, and I could see his point in limiting what was acceptable. I was raised liking music from Dolly Parton, Jerry Reed, Elvis Presley, and many other Country and Western, and Rock singers. I have a few of those in my family's past and present. 😉  My little brother is an entertainer in the Cincinnatti area and has won "Entertainer of the Year" there three years in a row. He was with the Eden Park Band, and is a solo singer, songwriter as well. But, I still believe as Christians, being a part of a "royal priesthood" and "set apart from the world," that we should be ever cognizant of the Bible's lessons of "a little leaven leaventh the whole lump," and the command for us to be "unspotted by the world." It sometimes is a hard line to call.

I definitely agree! Discernment is ongoing and important.  

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Posted (edited)
On 7/5/2021 at 2:34 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

What references in the Bible do you use to determine if the music is scriptural or not?

Bill, it's been many years since I've studied this topic and my memory is not what it once was to give you lots of quotes.  But if you are interested, these are some of the resources I used and these are all available for free in .pdf format.

https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/what-every-christian-should-know-rock-music.php

https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/satanic_attack_on_sacred_music.php

https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/rock-rolls-war-against-god.php

https://www.wayoflife.org/pdf/Church-Music-Standards-and-Training-Course.pdf

Edited by swathdiver
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Posted (edited)

This is a book by my old college mate, Kent Brandenburg on the subject of music. I know I've used it in teaching about music. I don't know if anyone besides me has a copy, or if anyone here has even read this book...If not, they should, IMHO. I believe the subject of music in the church, and what type of music, is too important to just close our eyes to the infilatration of worldly styles of music into the worship services. This book is well worth the money.

The name of the book is Sound Music or Sounding Brass.

Edited by BrotherTony
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