Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes sodomite marriage

[John81]

"Civil disobedience", at least as it's defined and practiced in America, isn't the same as what the Apostles did in obeying God rather than men. The Apostles, similar to Daniel in the OT, simply continued to do as commanded by Scripture. They didn't go out of their way to disobey, they didn't protest, they didn't break other laws to try and effect that which was against the Word.

As well, while most American Christians expect special treatment when standing up for God, complaining and often lashing out if they are persecuted, the Apostles (and Daniel) accepted the fact persecution may come, and when it did, they readily accepted the consequences without complaint, fight, marches or riots. In fact, we read of Peter and John rejoicing they were found worthy to suffer for Christ (after they had been beaten).

If we are going to take a stand for Christ, we should do so following the model in Scripture, not the worlds model.

[Potatochip]

Ephesians 6:12 King James Version (KJV)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

I sometimes wonder if people think that verse is addressing Roman-Greco wrestling.  lol.   In my opinion.  This is only my opinion.  You have to be careful sometimes  who you are following.  Indignant, outraged, vexed.  Your going to be.  There are families involved in all of this.  Your enemy surely knows that. Besides the moral indignation. I don't like the repeal of the Volstead Act.  Hundreds of thousands dead because of that.  Maybe people not reached.  

Pastor's pastor.  Hey they aren't perfect.  So what if a guy gets it wrong every once and a while.  Surely I do.  I like preaching Christ crucified.  Its so uncontroversial.  lol. So peaceful.  So Great Commission.  So pastor's are going to have to really pastor now.  Warning their people about this mess.  I believe that pornography should be right at the top of their list.  Drug addiction.  Adultery.  God is the author and finisher of our faith.  However and I'm no pastor lol.  We need to preach hard against such things. Sometimes. 

So without getting into my history.  You just might get a hard lesson here.  One that has to do with that verse up there.  The RCC is involved in these matters heavily. They network. Now you could say some of those guys mentioned in my lead topic are ecumenist's.  Given that "church" is works based.  Given what it is.  Did things suddenly change with them?   Guys involved in this make big money.  There are party politics.  

I believe in a strict Biblical interpretation of how to think about governments.  Nation governments.  We have our own.  We are a Holy Nation.  Our standards are well, way and above the worlds standards.  So there is no need to worry about us.  My opinion.  

If I verbally,  attacked and insulted people.  lol. If they fought back.  I dunno I wouldn't feel persecuted.  Your really not supposed to insult people. But how do you get everyone on one page.  I don't know that's a tall order lol.  Maybe it takes what Paul went through.  To appreciate relying on God for everything.  He knew government established order.  That's all they did. He was in pretty rough territory.  Got thrown in jail a lot for being falsely accused.   Possibly Rome was in Jerusalem for no small reason. Roman citizens were not the most moral on earth.  However that's the world. Grace is still here.  Order established.  Preach the gospel.

The Nation was never meant to be the Holy Nation.  That's total heresy. We are. To preach that America is a Holy Nation. It defies scripture and salvation. That might be saying all America is saved.  No we are saved and WE ARE A HOLY NATION.   Some want to be yoked.  Go ahead. Join in.  lol learn the hard way.  

If I preached the Gospel and was attacked for it. That's another matter.  

Edited May 7, 2015 by Potatochip

[Anon]

​Will you obey a nation's law in direct opposition to God's Holy Word?

​Did you read my post????   I never said such a thing......  :-)

[1Timothy115]

​Did you read my post????   I never said such a thing......  :-)

​Didn't say you did. I asked a question and the answer to the question was not in your post.

[John81]

​Didn't say you did. I asked a question and the answer to the question was not in your post.

​I think this quote from her post is the answer: "Of course we will have to just lose it and let God take care of us, in that case."

As I read it, Suzy is saying they will suffer loss for not obeying the ungodly directive and they will trust God to take care of them.

[1Timothy115]

"Civil disobedience", at least as it's defined and practiced in America, isn't the same as what the Apostles did in obeying God rather than men. The Apostles, similar to Daniel in the OT, simply continued to do as commanded by Scripture. They didn't go out of their way to disobey, they didn't protest, they didn't break other laws to try and effect that which was against the Word.

As well, while most American Christians expect special treatment when standing up for God, complaining and often lashing out if they are persecuted, the Apostles (and Daniel) accepted the fact persecution may come, and when it did, they readily accepted the consequences without complaint, fight, marches or riots. In fact, we read of Peter and John rejoicing they were found worthy to suffer for Christ (after they had been beaten).

If we are going to take a stand for Christ, we should do so following the model in Scripture, not the worlds model.

I'm not sure what part of Daniel you're referring to? It doesn't line up whit the scriptures I've read in Daniel.

Daniel refused the king's meat and God blessed him. It is civil disobedience to deny the king.
Daniel 1:8 "But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself."

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to worship the king's image idol and Jesus Christ was in the furnace protecting them.
Daniel 3:14-17, 25 
"14 Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up? 
15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? 
16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. 
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

John and Peter were in direct civil disobedience.
Acts 4:18-20
"18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard."

There are times when it right to be in direct civil disobedience. I have seen and heard that God established marriage between one man and one woman. I have seen and heard that the marriage relationship is an image and type of my relationship with my Savior in Ephesians 5:23-32. If SCOTUS decides same-sex marriage is the law of the land, making it illegal to deny it in any regard which would include speaking against it as hate speech, then I will continue to speak the things which I have seen and heard. I will not accept it as valid law. I will not eat the king's meat.

[John81]

As I said, there is a big difference between what the men of God did in Scripture in situations where an earthly command would require a person to disobey God, and what's called "civil disobedience" in America.

I would not equate standing rightly with God as being "civil disobedience" as practiced or defined in America; the two are very different.

I'm all for standing true to God, and have been in situations where such was necessary and I did so.

Our church has pre-planned for the possibility of the day when same-sex marriage is made legal across the land. A few years ago our boards discussed the matter and the main church board amended our church constitution to directly deal with this matter. Our pastors, boards, and all the members I've spoken with on the matter are of one mind in standing true with God regardless of the consequences. We have contingency plans to deal with various likely scenarios that might come about; in all the main point being a firm commitment to obey God.

[DaveW]

Well, I have mentioned this before, but in Australia being a Pastor does not automatically qualify you to perform civilly legal marriages.

There are two basic systems - become a civil celebrant, which any individual can do; or through a recognised religious body - independent baptists in Australia have a church which acts IN THIS MATTER ONLY as the administrator. However, each pastor must individually apply and qualify as an independent baptist celebrant.

There is certain protection (currently) under the religious body registration, but none at all for civil celebrants.

But as I have never actually qualified, I can refuse anyone I like.

I have actually done two weddings, but in those cases had a friend "officiate" which means we use their licence and they must verbally proclaim the couple "man and wife".

I intend to keep it that way as it keeps me safe from this sort of prosecution.

[1Timothy115]

As I said, there is a big difference between what the men of God did in Scripture in situations where an earthly command would require a person to disobey God, and what's called "civil disobedience" in America.

I would not equate standing rightly with God as being "civil disobedience" as practiced or defined in America; the two are very different.

I'm all for standing true to God, and have been in situations where such was necessary and I did so.

Our church has pre-planned for the possibility of the day when same-sex marriage is made legal across the land. A few years ago our boards discussed the matter and the main church board amended our church constitution to directly deal with this matter. Our pastors, boards, and all the members I've spoken with on the matter are of one mind in standing true with God regardless of the consequences. We have contingency plans to deal with various likely scenarios that might come about; in all the main point being a firm commitment to obey God.

​I'll take the being right with God over the laws of man every time. Beyond local church governance, I hope that individuals, will decide for their own selves; based on a firm knowledge of God's word and much prayer to stand even if persecution were threatened or occurred. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by 1Timothy115

[Guest]

These Justices are out of control. They rewrote the law on Obama Care and they vacated the 10th Amendment. Five unelected justices liberal policy views judicial activism at its worst.

Gotta love Ted Cruz

 

These Justices betrayed the Constitution and should indeed be impeached for it:

Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Elena Kagan
Sonia Sotomayor
Stephen Breyer
Anthony Kennedy