Speaking In Tongues

[GraceSaved]

My sister goes to a charasmatic church.  She speaks in tongues (the spiritual language modern day tongues).  She has shown me every scripture that she's been taught, mostly the ones in Acts and 1 Corinthians.  I went through them with her and showed how it was unbiblical.  She now sees in scripture but is so conditioned to 20 years experience.  I can sympathize with her because I used to go to a charasmatic church but it started to make me question and feel uncomfortable.  When I studied and searched for the truth in scripture, I didn't care about my experience.  We are not to trust ourselves, our feelings or our experiences if it is against the Word.  Of course I've been praying for her and I still think she is saved and a Christian but just in error.  What else can I tell her?  Especially because she feels deceived and can't understand what she's been doing all these years.  Any advice or suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Take her to 1 Corinthians 14.  show her that the Apostle Paul said it was forbidden for the woman to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Context (the whole Chapter is dealing with tongues) shows that a woman speaking in tongues was forbidden.  This means each time she does, she is being rebellious to the above verses.  And thus, rebellious also to God.

[GraceSaved]

She understands how it was to be used in the church and and they don't use it in public anymore unless interpreted because it's controversial. Specifically she's dealing with how it's used in private prayer. Charasmatics teach that it is used for empowerment, edifying oneself and allowance for the Holy Spirit to intercede as we know not what to pray for.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

But when the Holy Spirit intercedes, it is with groanings that cannot be uttered.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Also, tongues were given for a sign to unbelieving Jews. Why would God tell someone to speak in a tongue where no Jews were present when His Word says they are for a sign to the Jews? He would be telling someone to operate contrary to His written Word.

[GraceSaved]

Absolutely agree and explained all that and more but she just can't get past the "experience."

[DaveW]

One of my favourite passages.....
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

the key here is "what is the Word more sure than?"
The previous verses talk about the transfiguration of Christ.
Peter says that the Word of God is more sure than his own experience of viewing the transfiguration of Christ.

Throw that at her.......

[GraceSaved]

Dave W. I did. :-) That one sure blew my mind the first time I read it. I think I showed her every possible thing I could show her in scripture. The hard part is helping her get over the experience. For me, I just stopped believing once I sought after and learned the truth. She hasn't said it but I think she is struggling with thinking why God would allow her to be deceived. The only words of comfort I can offer is to be thankful that now she knows the truth. She just has to decide now what she will do with that truth.

[Bro K]

Take her to 1 Corinthians 14.  show her that the Apostle Paul said it was forbidden for the woman to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Context (the whole Chapter is dealing with tongues) shows that a woman speaking in tongues was forbidden.  This means each time she does, she is being rebellious to the above verses.  And thus, rebellious also to God.

How does the "And if they will learn any thing" relate to 'speaking in tongues'? Is speaking in tongues a learning subject and the husband must be capable of teaching his wife about it?

Why would Paul single out the women on this subject matter?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Bro K, why would she not be able to learn if the message spoken was in a language she understood?

Most understand the language they speak, so I believe that the verses are speaking of tongues.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Her speaking out could be seen as a disruption in the service.  The key though, may be in the words "as also saith the Law".  The Law forbade the women to speak in tongutes or when tongues were given for some reason.

verse 40 may hold significance as well.  Let all things be done decently and in order.

[beameup]

"Jews seek a sign" - that's what Acts 2 was all about.

It was fulfilled by the "little flock" in Jerusalem under "the twelve" apostles.

The Body of Christ ("Church") didn't start until Paul was saved in Acts 9.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Wrong, beammeup.

The Body of Christ started much earlier than that.  Read Acts 2

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Even in Philippians 3, Paul said that before His conversion he persecuted the Church.  How could he have persecuted the Church if the Church did not exist until after Saul/Paul got saved?

[beameup]

The "church of the firstborn" is the Jewish "Sect of the Nazarenes",  a strictly Jewish sect. 

Mosaic Law was still practiced by the Jewish believers in Acts.

Rejection of Steven's message = Steven stoned = Paul (apostle to Gentiles) saved.

Just because they use the Greek ekklesia does not mean the Body of Christ.

 

 

2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing"

The "middle wall of partition" between those saved under the Gospel of the (imminent) Kingdom

(ie: "grafted in" to Israel)

and those saved by the Gospel of Grace ("one new man") was accomplished in Acts 28:28 when

Paul is in prison (see Ephesians).

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Ephesians 2:14-15 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Both are one in Christ.  The Gentiles were grafted into the vine.  No such thing as a Church of the Jews and Church of the Gentiles.  Christ has ONE BODY, not two.  The Church that existed before Acts 10 did not remain a separate Church from the Gentiles.... it was one universal Body.