What Do You Think The "kingdom Of God" Is?

[Covenanter]

 

A good chapter to go along with Jer 31 and Heb 8 is Romans 11.

 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;

that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer,

and shall turn away ungodliness from JacOB:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,

they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.  Romans 11:25-29

 

What is Rom. 11 saying? Who comprises "all Israel" ? Vast numbers of Jews have been lost in the past 2000 years.

Is the saving covenant yet future, or is it the covenant ratified at Calvary?

 

As I understand disp teaching, the fulness of the Gentiles is completed at the "rapture";

then 7 years tribulation takes place during which 2/3 of Jews will perish.

"All Israel" then is not many of those surviving the rapture.

 

Or should we understand "all Israel" as Abraham's seed. i.e. all believing Jews & Gentiles - see Rom. 4 - Abraham being "father of many nations." That includes the many thousands of Jews converted in NT times, & their descendants, and of course those Jews converted in the last 2,000 years whose separate identity as Jews ended as they were rejected by their community.

[Genevanpreacher]

Genevan

If what you said to me above is true, and you admit that God and Heaven are not the same thing, then why do you try to make the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven the same thing? 

You said that my essay was very well written from my perspective, as if it is "only  my interpretation" or something.  I think I did a fairly good jOB of defining my terms from the Scripture, so I don't see how you can dance around the scriptural definitions and examples provided.

The Apostle Paul never one time refers to the Kingdom of Heaven.  Is this just a coincidence?  Not if "every word of God is pure" and therefore significant. 

I have not taken any verse out of context, and invented any peculiar definition.

 

That is why I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would try to make the KOH and the KOG the same thing.  The words are not the same, the Apostle Paul never uses the terms interchangeably, most the KOH parables of Matthew are peculiar.  Mark 4 contains 3 KOG parables that match, but the rest do not match.  The rest are different. 

 

So then, I ask in all sincerity that you provide something similar to what I did to prove your point.  I would at least like to understand your rationale.

 

My 'rationale'...

As I said before in previous replies, I read the same 'environment', or 'setting' I guess would be more right to say, when these things (parables) are spoken.

I don't 'see' your view on the possibility that they are two things.

As for your definitions, I know what God means and heaven means. Most of the rest, I disagree with, your view is interesting, but not my view of what the verses quoted are saying.

As for 'every word of God is pure'? I do not agree with your definition of this verse.

You said " every single word of God is significant". What about phraseology?

 I believe God spoke through the 'pen' of men to give us his word, perfectly understandable. That is what I would call 'pure', not each individual word, but the whole of scripture.

God did not speak to us through single words but through 'all scripture'. That's why we have sentences, paragraphs by subject, chapters, books, testaments.

I believe the 'word of God' not the 'word' of God.

I hope you understand.

I am not trying to sound like you do not believe right, but I am just trying to explain how I think.

[Invicta]

Actually, the "allegorical" or "symbolic" interpretation of Scripture started with Origen (185-254 AD).

It's an easy way to "dismiss" prophetic scriptures that you don't understand, and it was foundational to the

4th Century Catholic Doctrine of "Replacement Theology", whereby "the Church" (under the EMPEROR)

 replaced true Israel. This has remained the central foundational doctrine of Catholicism for 1 1/2 millennia.

It was even "carried over" to the so-called "Reformers" (like Luther, for example).

 

So, a verse dealing with the promises made to Israelites (ie: Jews) by GOD is simply deemed "allegorical"...

and "poof" it ceases to be a prOBlem.  That's why the Book of Hebrews is so difficult for "gentiles" to understand.

It's much easier to just "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" and be saved.

 

Allegorical is not the same as symbolic.  Symbolic interpretation began in the scriptures, for example as in Daniel 2:36  This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

[Steve Schwenke]

Genevan

I understand what you are saying.  Maybe you are not quite understanding what I am saying.

 

It is not that I ignore context, grammar, phraseology, etc.  All of those things are important when it comes to interpretation.  I do not dispute that. 

But

There is no grammar without words.  Phrases are composed of words.  Context is dependent upon how the words in a particular passage interact with each other, giving due consideration to grammar, figures of speech, common colloquialisms, etc. 

Yes I understand all of these things.

 

Yet, when it comes down to it, the particular words used in the Scriptures are of significance.  I take every word into account. 

 

So, I understand where you are coming from, and your point of reference in this matter is where we hit that impasse.  When your view is taken, it is easy to start lumping things together that don't belong together (in my view), and the whole reason you do that is because you do not make the same distinction between the exact words that I do. 

The entire nature of our disagreement stems from this fact.  At least you are honest enough to admit it, and I can appreciate honesty.

 

Let me just say this.  Salvation is a legal issue.  It deals with the Law, breaking the Law, penalties of breaking the law, and how a man is condemned or justified in the sight of the Law.  Anyone who has ever had to deal with a lawyer knows just how sticky the Law can get in the secular realm, so how much MORE in the spiritual realm?  This is just ONE of the several reasons why I am very particular about EVERY WORD in the KJV Bible being the perfect word that God chose to use.  It is not just that God has given us this Book that has the "right idea," It is that God has given us a book that is perfect in every particular.  If it is not perfect in every particular, then there might be a way to squirm out of the legal mess we find ourselves in regarding His Laws.  No can do.  There is no wiggle room, because the Law book is absolutely perfect in every sense of the word, and there is no way to get out of our sin on a technicality because the correct word was not used!  Hopefully that makes a little bit of sense.

 

Anyway, since we cannot agree on this issue, I see no point on further discussion.

 

Let's go soulwinning!

 

IN Christ,

[Invicta]

Not just the words themselves but the language of the text makes a distinction. You should be able to tell from some passages concerning God's kingdom in scripture cannot be applied to the spiritual kingdom believers are born into.

 

Such as?

[swathdiver]

"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Matthew 3:2

 

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15

 

[Covenanter]

"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Matthew 3:2

 

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15

 

It gets very complicated - if you do a search for "kingdom of."  Here's a selection:

 

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. (Ex. 19)

And now, behold, I know well that thou shalt surely be king, and that the kingdom of Israel shall be established in thine hand. (1 Sam. 16)

And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.(1 Chr. 28)

This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. (Dan. 4)

And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel. (Hos. 1)

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (Mat. 19)

Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest. (Mark 11)

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. (Luke 9)

To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: (Acts 1)

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Rom. 14)

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Eph. 5)

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (Col. 1)

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1)

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. (Rev. 12)

 

Or is it all very simple? By repentance & faith we become citizens of God's heavenly kingdom. The Gospel of the Kingom calls us, & we respond, are born again of his Spirit, & see the kingdom of God. Ultimately, in the NH&NE God's perfect kingdom is over all, with all that offends cast out.

 

Mat. 13:³⁶ Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. ³⁷ He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; ³⁸ the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; ³⁹ the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. ⁴⁰ As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. ⁴¹ The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; ⁴² and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. ⁴³ Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

God is the present ruler - King - over all creation, but at present his creation/kingdom is populated by saints & sinners. He commands all men everywhere to repent, & so become saints in his kingdom.