Ergun Caner

[John B. Carpenter]

In December 2013, Brewton-Parker College, a Southern Baptist college in Georgia, hired Ergun Caner as president.  They said they called Caner “because of the attacks” on him. This should be the siren signal awakening us all to a crisis in our institutions.

 

The Brewton-Parker trustees have one thing right: You don’t need to listen to Caner’s critics. Only listen to his own words, available on the internet. For the time being. Hear him claim that he was born in Istanbul, Turkey; that as a boy growing up in Turkey he only knew American culture through what he had seen on TV there; hear him tell how he hated us Americans; that he was educated in a Madrasah (a Islamic religious school) in Beirut, Lebanon; that he was trained to be a terrorist; hear him tell of coming to the USA in 1978 at age 14, when his father immigrated with his several wives (using the “Abraham lie” to claim his plural wives were really his sisters); how they came here to

be Islamic missionaries to America, taking his prayer rug to school and praying toward Mecca in his high school bathroom; hear with amazement his testimony of conversion when he says he came into a Baptist church in full Islamic garb, carrying  a Koran; listen carefully to his Arabic, as he recounts what Islamic hecklers were shouting at him during his various debates. Just listen to him. Then read Brewton-Parker University’s press release. Interesting that it doesn’t contain any of those claims you can hear yourself.  Then look at his yearbook photos of Caner as a student in public school.  He appears as a normal American kid of the 1970s and ‘80s. Ask a real Arabic speaker to make heads-or-tails out of Caner’s quotes. Ask for proof of Caner engaging in a real debate with a Muslim. Then ask yourself, what’s the truth?

 

The truth is that “Butch Caner”, as he was commonly known prior to 9/11, wove a tangled web. It was exposed while he was at Liberty Baptist Seminary. A Liberty investigative committee managed to thread the needle between completely white-washing Caner’s fictions and telling it like it is. They concluded that Caner was guilty of “factual statements that are self-contradictory.” There’s a four letter word that means the same thing; rhymes with “flies.” I was disappointed in the political nature of the committee’s conclusion but thought it was just a diplomatic way to humiliate him so that he would look for work elsewhere. That’s what happened, with Caner going to Arlington Baptist College. We should have all hoped that that would have brought Caner to repentance. Instead, he went on the rampage, suing Christians who had posted videos of his speeches. He maybe the only Christian speaker in the world desperately trying to suppress his sermons and lectures. We can understand why. If his own words are suppressed, all that you’ll have to know about the claims that rocketed him to prominence in the evangelical world will be through his critics. Then it will be he-said-youtube-said. Caner and some well-placed allies, will then claim those critics are enemies attacking him. (Worse yet, they may even be Calvinists!) And that Caner and his protectors have already done. Of course, one doesn’t need to listen to the “attacks”. One needs only to listen to Butch himself. That’s why the new president of a Southern Baptist college doesn’t want you to hear him.

 

The problem goes beyond Caner. The question is whether our Baptist institutions operate with any integrity. Can one lie his way into the presidency of a Baptist college? Certainly we can expect that a man who treated his autobiography as a work of fiction is particularly good at ingratiating himself with the right movers-and-shakers. After all, if the truth didn’t restrain him from telling crowds what they wanted to hear, surely said truth didn’t keep him from flattering the keepers of the keys of Baptist institutions. Already, inexplicably, Caner was invited to be on the platform for the inauguration of Dr. Richard Land of president of Southern Evangelical Seminary in Matthews, North Carolina. The question now whether we will love the truth or love what we want to hear.

 

 

[John B. Carpenter]

For more information about "Butch" Caner and his jihadi persona, see: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2013/12/30/reposting-of-the-case-against-ergun-caner/

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I have looked at the yearbook pictures of Ergun in the 70's.  How one can say he was not from a another country is beyond me.

Sorry Carpenter, but I can pull up pictures of Turkishs lads easily and compare them to the yearbook pictures.  Not much difference.

Calvinist's will do anything to try to destroy a man of God.  That is why they attack Caner so vehemently.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

We can see your agenda.  Your very first post on OB is to attack Ergun Caner.

What?  Did you see Dr. Ach's article and decide you were going to prove him wrong.  Won't work.

[John B. Carpenter]

Hi SFIC,

 

In the yearbook pictures, Butch is dressed and has the hair-styles of a typical American kid of the time. There is no Islamic garb, etc, such as he claims. I don't see how Caner can be called a "man of God" when he's told so many proven lies.

[John B. Carpenter]

My agenda is to tell the truth. Caner made the following claims, as anyone can still hear on the internet:

 

1. he was born in Istanbul, Turkey

2. as a boy growing up in Turkey he only knew American culture through what he had seen on TV there

3. he was educated in a Madrasah (a Islamic religious school) in Beirut, Lebanon

4. he came to the USA in 1978 at age 14

5. his father immigrated with his several wives (using the “Abraham lie” to claim his plural wives were really his sisters)

6. they came here to be Islamic missionaries to America

7. he took his prayer rug to school and prayed toward Mecca in his high school bathroom

8. he came into a Baptist church in full Islamic garb, carrying  a Koran

9. he speaks what he implies is Arabic,

10. he claims he's engaged in debates in Mosques with Muslims.

 

These are all false. Butch was born in Stockholm, Sweden, coming to the USA when he was about 2 years old, went to public school; his father was not polygamous and wasn't a Muslim scholar; there's no evidence of Butch appearing Muslim in the schools; true Arabic speakers claim his pretend Arabic is gibberish and there is no evidence that he's debated any Muslims in a Mosque; he wasn't even known as "Ergun" until after 9/11, going by "Butch" or "E. Michael" prior to that and now he claims his middle name is "Mehmet" whereas before he claimed it was "Michael".

[Ukulelemike]

Never heard of him,  so I have no dog in the fight, but it seems like it should be pretty easy to find if his Arabic is gibberish or amateurish as there should be a plethora of people  who should be able to verify it.

 As well, I would think there should be again plenty of people who would have known him before 9/11/2001. If he really was just a normal kid in the US since 1968, a history should be easy to find, people who knew him, girls he dated, etc.

it does seem odd that someone would want to sue other believers, clearly against the Bible, especially when it is to keep his own sermon videos from being shown. Most preachers want people to hear them. Or is he just trying to protect them so he can make money from them?

 

Being southern Baptist, of course, I have no real interest in him. But I'll be interested to see where this goes.

[John B. Carpenter]

Hi Ukulelemike

Yeah, you probably haven't heard of him because some (like the Christianity Today types) seem to regard it as beneath them to discuss the matter much. Then there he has some well-placed protectors, like Norman Geisler, who suppress any reporting of his false claims -- making Caner out to be a victim of a plot.

The first to expose him were the Muslims and then Christians who debated Muslims, like James White, heard their mocking of him. See the material from James White (Alpha & Omega ministries) above. He has excerpts of Caner making those claims which we now know to be complete fabrications.

I'm not Southern Baptist either but we should be concerned because (1) he's now an embarrassment, I'm told, for evangelizing Muslims because they know about the "fake" Ergun Caner; (2) it shows someone can lie his way into being the president of a Baptist college; (3) how gullible we can be, accepting the claims we want to believe (as in Mike Warnke about a half a generation ago) and (4) how some Christians will circle the wagons and defend one of their own no matter how much evidence there is against him, to our own embarrassment while other parts of the Christian media just ignore the story because they think it's beneath them. 

[John81]

A furtherance of what has become normal in America where truth no longer matters; only agendas and political ideology, where the end justifies the means.

[candlelight]

I read Ergun and Emir Caner's book called, Unveiling Islam:  An Insider's Look At Muslim Life and Beliefs."  It said he and his brothers were born in the USA.  They grew up in my home state of OH.  I liked the book.  I read it when it came out.  I've heard Dr.James Ach, on Online Baptist, post that Calvinists are spreading lies about Caner, but that is all I heard.  I would recommend the book to anyone who would like to read more about Islam.  My

[John B. Carpenter]

John81, Exactly! The idea seems to be that if you need a gimmick to attract an audience and get the attention of the powers-that-be so you can get those plum jobs of college president, play on your very

slight exposure to Islam. It really sells in the wake of 9/11. Caner simply used words to achieve his goal. Hence, many look at Butch Caner and yawn -- or even, bizarrely, defend him as a "man of God".

[John B. Carpenter]

Hi Candlelight, 

Admittedly, I haven't read the book. But I'd ask you to check again what it says. Ergun was born in Stockholm, Sweden. However, he is on video claiming he was born in Istanbul, Turkey. Emir was born in the US.

According to sources, the book is a poor source about Islam and demonstrates that the Caner's don't really known much about it. For example, it supposedly cites The Hadith (a Muslim holy book, second to the Koran) with chapter and verse numbers (like a book of the Bible). But it doesn't cite the collection from the Hadith. It would be like citing the Bible without telling what book of the Bible you are citing, like saying "Bible 3:16". If you saw someone write "Bible 3:16", you'd know right away that such a person doesn't really know the Bible very well.

James White has some good material on that. I'd suggest you look through what White says on youtube about Caner.

[candlelight]

Hi Candlelight, 

Admittedly, I haven't read the book. But I'd ask you to check again what it says. Ergun was born in Stockholm, Sweden. However, he is on video claiming he was born in Istanbul, Turkey. Emir was born in the US.

According to sources, the book is a poor source about Islam and demonstrates that the Caner's don't really known much about it. For example, it supposedly cites The Hadith (a Muslim holy book, second to the Koran) with chapter and verse numbers (like a book of the Bible). But it doesn't cite the collection from the Hadith. It would be like citing the Bible without telling what book of the Bible you are citing, like saying "Bible 3:16". If you saw someone write "Bible 3:16", you'd know right away that such a person doesn't really know the Bible very well.

James White has some good material on that. I'd suggest you look through what White says on youtube about Caner.

 

I highlighted the areas where you are correct, John B.  Many former Muslims, go into hiding, b/c of the Muslim Brotherhood.  Obviously, they are concerned they will be murdered.  They aren't lying, they are protecting themselves.  Such is the case of Brigitte Gabriel of Act For America.  Her stories on her life vary, as well, b/c she is hiding out from radical Islam.  Wouldn't you?  Arab Christians have the most difficulty when they get saved.  They come under numerous attacks from Satan, and they have to hide out b/c they may be murdered.  It is not an easy road for them.   

[John81]

No, I wouldn't hide. What does it declare to the enemies of Christ if I don't believe my God is big enough to protect me so I hide and lie.

 

Further, how is one hiding if they become a public figure?

 

Anyway, if God be for us, who can be against us?

[candlelight]

No, I wouldn't hide. What does it declare to the enemies of Christ if I don't believe my God is big enough to protect me so I hide and lie.

 

Further, how is one hiding if they become a public figure?

 

Anyway, if God be for us, who can be against us?

I am not saying that Ergun Caner is hiding, John.  Just a thought.  However, many of them do.  They have a bounty on their heads.  Brigitte Gabriel of ACT has armed body guards to protect her.  We can't understand this, because we weren't saved out of Islam.  They kill their own, and they won't hesitate to kill an "Infidel."  That's all...