Seeeeeeeee?????????

[Anon]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,436642,00.html

Gas prices dropping...see the market CAN stabilize itself to an extent.

So howcome the rises are Bush's fault and the drops are nobody's fault? LOL....

[Bakershalfdozen]

Humanly speaking, and IMO, if the gas prices had stayed low in the first place, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Anon]

Which mess? LOL

The mess we are in NOW are because the government allowed lenders to give money to people to buy houses that never should have been approved for a loan.

Do you know how many illegal immigrants got Fannie Mae loans? *sigh*

[John81]

Once again, most of this is the result of stock market traders and speculators. They are helping to drive the stock market down and make the financial problems worse than they otherwise would be.

At the same time, with the economy tanking, these people fear folks won't be driving as much and therefore fuel consumption will decrease and thus that changes their speculating and we see the prices drop.

[Anon]

Its true, so much goes on behind the scenes that never even gets close to being reported by the media.

[John81]

Yeah, the "news" media is driven by the desire for profits and/or their particular agenda.

Most are very liberal and slant news stories to favor their liberal views. And even Fox News chases the dollar by constantly putting on unnecessary stories dealing with one aspect of sex or another.

None of the news programs will actually dig for real news. They all stick to the sensational and the surface stories.

[IM4given]

When Ron Paul was warning us that the finacial bridge was about to collapse the media called him a "fruit cake, nut job, wakko" blah blah blah and pooh poohed his expertise in this area - well not one word is spoken in the media about how Ron Paul was RIGHT!

http://libertymaven.com/2008/09/19/ron- ... isis/1965/

Ron Paul, The Nostradamus Who Predicted the Current Financial Crisis

September 19th, 2008 6:31 am | by George Dewey | Published in Banking, Big Government, Constitution, Debt, Economics, Free Market, Investing, Liberty, Money, Philosophy, Politics, Ron Paul | 7 Comments

So, it is the work week of September 15th through the 19th, 2008. Some of the largest financial institutions of the United States are failing, crumbling, selling for pennies on the dollar? or even being ?bought and sold? by our very own, out of control government, assisted by the infinite counterfeiting and money-laundering by the Federal Reserve. Although I haven?t yet heard the term Black Monday applied, many economists have compared this past Monday, the 15th, to 1929. Sure, the market had a good day today. But did anyone really think that it wouldn?t? I mean, even back in 1987, there was a huge rebound. But it doesn?t change the fact that many lost their life savings, and many families never recovered.

And, as always, when there is any kind of disaster, the finger-pointing begins. And has it ever begun in this case! Cyberspace, the radio waves, and the talking boxes all scream for a scapegoat. Whose fault is it? Is it Bush?s fault? What could he have done differently? Did he have the foresight or the ability to do everything differently? What can he do now? Was it Congress?s fault? Will John McCain and Sarah Palin ?fix? those evil CEO?s who ruined these companies? Will Obama?s change result in anything BUT loose change in the pockets of the Middle Class? Can Obama be our savior?


Actually, all of the questions above are irrelevant. And, also, yes. At the same time. The most astonishing fact is that many economists have seen this coming for a long time, and have warned the government, the media, and the public, screaming warnings, only to be ignored or dismissed.

In fact, back on Sept. 10, 2003, U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, testified before the House Financial Services Committee:

?

As Paul saw the situation some five years ago, the government backing isolated GSE management from market discipline. If Fannie and Freddie were not underwritten by the federal government, he told the committee, investors would demand the institutions held to higher management and accounting practices.

Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market,? Paul predicted. ?This is because the special privileges granted to Fannie and Freddie have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.

?Despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government?s interference in the housing market, the government?s policy of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing,? Paul went on. ?Like all artificially created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.

Wow. It almost sounds as if all of the answers are right in front us, and that they are all very simple. All of our candidates and Congress are pretending to scramble for answers and solutions. Yet, all one has to do is look back at the four-part plan which Ron Paul previously proposed; one which I believe most Middle Class Americans would fervently cry out for, if they were only simply told about it. The even better news is that it?s not rocket science. It?s a simple matter of instituting lower taxes, less spending, a sound monetary policy and regulatory reform.

So, let?s all just forget about the ?smoke and mirrors? change which Obama and McCain claim they will usher in once elected. The reality is, Ron Paul has been giving us (AND A DEAF CONGRESS!) the answers all along.

As Ron Paul said back on March 4th of this year, ?Unless we embrace fundamental reforms, we will be caught in a financial storm that will humble this great country as no foreign enemy ever could,? he wrote. ?We can find safe harbor in our ideals. Reclaiming our historic legacy of principled commitment to liberty will, once again, unleash the innovative spirit that propelled our nation to the heights of prosperity.?

[John81]

That's because the media is in bed with the powers that be.

[Anon]

No offense but even Ron Paul could not fix this problem. This problem has been since Herbert Hoover and FDR and is not an easy fix.

[John81]

No offense but even Ron Paul could not fix this problem. This problem has been since Herbert Hoover and FDR and is not an easy fix.

Had people listened to the warnings and took action then, much of the current problem could have been avoided. Bill O'Reilly has has some good programs on this (of course, he didn't mention Ron Paul) where he confronted homosexual congressman Barney Frank, who was head over the Fannie and Freddie yet warned no one of their problems and did nothing to correct the problems. As well, Frank was found to be having a sexual relationship with one of the top guys having something to do with these companies.

Apparently, plenty of people in top positions knew of the impending crisis yet none of them sounded the alarm and none of them took the steps necessary to avert a crisis.

In the long run, Ron Pauls solutions would restore America to a healthy economy while what's being done today is only a temporary and very partial "fix". Eventually, this "fix" will add to the problems that are coming.

The next president will be inheriting a very sour economy and if they can't do something to at least give the illusion they have fixed the problem or are leading the country out of the problem, they will be doomed to a one-term presidency.

[Anon]

Seeing as how it will probably be Obama...one term would be good. However, he's already deceived so many, I have no doubt he can continue for four years to get another four.

[John81]

Seeing as how it will probably be Obama...one term would be good. However' date=' he's already deceived so many, I have no doubt he can continue for four years to get another four.[/quote']

Obama, if elected, will likely have the advantage of having a compliant and cooperative Dem congress to work with. He will also have the backing and support of most of the media. As well all know, the media is able to create false perceptions about the economy (consider how they did this when Bush the First ran for reelection).

If Obama wins, the media will run cover for him and unless he somehow falls out of favor with them (not likely) they will distort the "news" during the next election in order to help him win a second term.

McCain, if he wins, won't have these advantages. In fact, he's likely to be saddled with a Dem congress that will hamper him and the media will be ready to pounce on him at every turn. As well, the media will create the impression that the Dem congress is trying to solve the problems but McCain is obstructing their efforts. Come next election cycle and the media will attempt to tar and feather McCain while building up the Dems congress and the idea that if they had a Dem president, all would be well.

[kevinmiller]

The mess we're in isn't as a result of gas prices or stock traders. It has to do with people both loaning and borrowing money left and right without any kind of concern for tomorrow. The economy goes up and down, that's normal. The economy goes way down, however, when, while in a normal downswing, nobody has enough money anymore to pay for the BMW and $500,000 house that they put on credit. The government further worsens it by printing worthless money. Yeah, it spurs the economy for a little while, only to see inflation go up faster than the job raises. So what it really boils down to is irresponsible money managers in society and in government.

[John81]

Yes Kevin, the mess with the banks and such is indeed as you say. Where the stock market and speculators fit in is with the way they manipulate the markets. This banking crisis, by itself, would be far less of an economic problem if it were not for how the stock market and speculators have reacted.

The government was in charge of Fannie and Freddie and Dem congressman Frank and Dodd both failed to rightly deal with them (which was their job), all the while as Dodd was receiving special perks from them and Frank was having a sexual relationship with one of the company top dogs.

Speculators, earlier this year, drove oil prices (and thus gas prices) 30% or more higher than they would have been without their speculating.

Americans are spending less because they have less money to go around and this leads to company slow downs which leads to lay offs and unemployment rising. So far, the unemployment rate isn't real high. However, it wouldn't take much before America were to fall into the Catch 22 of people not having enough to spend so more companies lay off which gives folks even less money to spend and creates worry among others so they don't spend, which leads to more lay offs and less spending and more lay offs, less spending, more lay offs...

If such a cycle occurs, it's difficult to halt and generally takes a long while to correct itself.

Oftentimes during such financial downturns a government will look to war as a means of distracting the people and as an attempt to pump up the economy.

[Guest Guest]

Do you know how many illegal immigrants got Fannie Mae loans? *sigh*

Don't forget about the Freddie Mac loans that the illegal immigrants got, either! You see...Fannie was unable to keep up...so, she needed a little help from her sister...Freddie. :lol :roll

**double sigh**

Only in the US of A!! :bonK: