Wondering

[Julie L]

Wait a second! Isn't it always the Catholics who insist so vehemently that you are literally to eat Christ's flesh?

Not sure what you mean? The RCC teaches that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ. But He is hidden under the appearance of bread and wine. It would be very hard for anyone to swallow what tasted like blood or flesh.

Here is a quote written by Ignatius of Antioch (second bishop of Antioch) who was but to death by the Emperor Trajan some time between: (98-117):
The Docetists (unbelievers of the time), he says, "hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they refuse to admit that the EUCHARIST is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised."

[Julie L]

An Urban legend is something that has never in all of history been proven. And there has been MANY miracles that show that the Eucharist is something other that bread and wine.

I am not telling you to believe the Eucharist is Jesus because it is OLD. But that it is further proof that the Eucharist is the flesh and blood of Jesus. For those who "need" a sign.

Next Sunday is Corpus Christi, here is the story of the miracle:

In 1263 a German priest, Peter of Prague, stopped at Bolsena while on a pilgrimage to Rome. He is described as being a pious priest, but one who found it difficult to believe that Christ was actually present in the consecrated Host. While celebrating Holy Mass above the tomb of St. Christina (located in the church named for this martyr), he had barely spoken the words of Consecration when blood started to seep from the consecrated Host and trickle over his hands onto the altar and the corporal.

The priest was immediately confused. At first he attempted to hide the blood, but then he interrupted the Mass and asked to be taken to the neighboring city of Orvieto, the city where Pope Ur ban IV was then residing.

The Pope listened to the priest's account and absolved him. He then sent emissaries for an immediate investigation. When all the facts were ascertained, he ordered the Bishop of the diocese to bring to Orvieto the Host and the linen cloth bearing the stains of blood. With archbishops, cardinals and other Church dignitaries in attendance, the Pope met the procession and, amid great pomp, had the relics placed in the cathedral. The linen corporal bearing the spots of blood is still reverently enshrined and exhibited in the Cathedral of Orvieto.

It is said that Pope Urban IV was prompted by this miracle to commission St. Thomas Aquinas to compose the Proper for a Mass and an Office honoring the Holy Eucharist as the Body of Christ. One year after the miracle, in August of 1264, Pope Urban IV introduced the saint's composition, and by means of a papal bull instituted the feast of Corpus Christi.

[Julie L]

Here is the story of the Greatest Eucharistic Miracle:

This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.

The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

[Guest Guest]

I agree, How can you use a document written BY Catholics, against Catholics?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, ma'am. Could you please clarify?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

[Guest Guest]

Then why does the Bible tell us that we receive the Holy Spirit when we're born again, not when we're baptised?

To "be born again" means to be baptized.
Born again = Baptism

They are one and the same.

Very interesting.

Ma'am, do you consider yourself to be a good person?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

[Julie L]

Very interesting.

Ma'am, do you consider yourself to be a good person?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

By God's standards... I have a long way to go. I try, but when I fail.... and I do often, I repent.

[Julie L]

On another message board, I've cited for the Catholics their own CCC, the Council of Trent, and other Catholic resources. Every time, I've been told that it's just something some "anti-Catholic" website made up.

On these other message boards... what exactly did you post? Can you give me "one" example how you used the CCC or the Council of Trent against Catholic's?

I'm just trying to get a handle on what you have been told is "propaganda"

[Julie L]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, ma'am. Could you please clarify?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

I am just trying to understand why war_eagle wrote that he sited the CCC and then claimed Catholics didn't know what he was talking about. Or was it that he miss quoted the CCC? I don't know, that is why I am asking for an example.

Jules

[Julie L]

This may be of interest too...

I found a quote from Martin Luther himself that proves the belief in the Eucharist as the body & blood of Christ is as old as Christianity:

"of all the fathers, as many as you can name, not one has ever spoken about the sacrament as these fanatics do. None of them uses such an expression as, "Is is simply bread and wine," or "Christ's body and blood are not present." Yet this subject is so frequently discussed by them, it is impossible that they should not at some time have let slip such an expression as, "it is simply bread," or "Not that the body of Christ is physically present," or the like, since they are greatly concerned not to mislead the people; actually, they simply proceed to speak as if no one doubted that Christ's body and blood are present. Certainly among so many fathers and so many writings a negative argument should have turned up at least once, as happens in other articles; but actually they all stand uniformly and consistently on the affirmative side"

Luther's Works (St. Louis, MO: Concordia Publishing, 1961) Volume 37, 54.

[Guest Guest]

By God's standards... I have a long way to go. I try' date=' but when I fail.... and I do often, I repent.[/quote']
Indeed, ma'am.

Have you ever told a lie?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

[ptwild]

Here we go. He's about to convert the converted.

[John81]

What a poor and unnecessary post. :sad

[Julie L]

I think I saw Kirk Cameron do this on TV years ago. But I'm not sure I remember how it ended.

So... Yes, I have told a lie.

[Guest Guest]

I think I saw Kirk Cameron do this on TV years ago. But I'm not sure I remember how it ended.

So... Yes, I have told a lie.

So what does that make you?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

[Julie L]

So what does that make you?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

It makes me a lier.