Wondering

[1Timothy115]

I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?can not EARN this??

I believe Baptism is a gift. So it is not a reward for a pious Christian life' date=' or held back until we have a certain form of conversion. Just like we do not deserve or earn our salvation, nor can we earn the grace of baptism. In other words an adult does not deserve baptism any more than an infant - who has earned nothing. [/quote']

I?m only familiar with the spiritual gifts described by Paul and I think Peter also. I don?t recall any scripture about baptism being a grace. I would like to study it, where can I find that in the Bible?




I believe the verse 1 John 5:13, describes if you can know. I?ve often wondered and thought if someone were dying and had only moments to live but, wanted to be saved what hope I would offer. I came to the conclusion it would be, Romans 10:9. That is an interesting thought concerning a martyr. Do you have any doubt of a person?s faith who dies for Christ?s name?s sake?





I wonder how this compares with Luke 11:13 and Ephesians 1:13. Have you looked into this before? If so, what did you find? Or, if you look now, let me know what your take is.




Do you believe Jesus is hidden in this bread and wine? Also, do you believe Jesus remains in bread and wine for hundreds of years? Who is anyone you mentioned ?not that anyone has been able to see??

[Julie L]

An example...no need: I can see this. So Jesus was teaching us it was symbolic' date=' an act of obedience, and possibly for us to show forth to others we are following Christ? Christ was talking to a majority and most likely all Jew audience. I know there are verses in the Bible explaining the Jews require a sign and I'm sure there are verses explaining New Testament Christians are to rely on faith. 1 Corinthians 1:22 and Hebrews 11:1[/quote']
I'm not sure I follow the connection here? Are you saying Jesus' baptism is symbolic in order to give the Jews their "sign" that they were looking for?

I believe Jesus' baptism is symbolic, but not ours, I think we gain something from it.
in Mark 1:4 John's baptism is said to forgive sins (this doesn't sound symbolic)
in Acts 2:38 says baptism forgives sins & you will receive the Holy Spirit. (also doesn't sound symbolic)
in Peter 3:21 ..."baptism, which saves you now." (definite gain here)

[BlessedChristianlady8]

I have a question also Why do Catholics thinks it's not ok for children under 12 years old to be witnessed too? My sister is Catholic and at age 11 years old 3 years ago I sent my Nephew Gospel Tracts to witness to him. Why did a Catholic Mother say that I scared him and I have to be gentle at childrens age like that? That they don't need to know the end of times but there are children in our Baptist church that is way younger that came to knowlege of the Saviour?
My Bible says that Baptism does not Save you from Hell but Salvation and coming to know the Lord with repentace and living for him gets you to Heaven/
I have another Question my other Sister married a Catholic man that didn't have a great marriage. His First wife had left him for some messed up reasons. The Catholic Church didn't allow the family to attend thier church because he didn't pay thousands of dollars for annulments. Why would the Catholic Church teach such a thing and act like you didn't have children prior to your recent Marriage? I been wondering why with that.

[1Timothy115]

1Tim115 wrote:
An example...no need: I can see this. So Jesus was teaching us it was symbolic, an act of obedience, and possibly for us to show forth to others we are following Christ? Christ was talking to a majority and most likely all Jew audience. I know there are verses in the Bible explaining the Jews require a sign and I'm sure there are verses explaining New Testament Christians are to rely on faith. 1 Corinthians 1:22 and Hebrews 11:1

I'm not sure I follow the connection here? Are you saying Jesus' baptism is symbolic in order to give the Jews their "sign" that they were looking for?

Nope, I?m saying the Jews required signs and miracles, they were looking at prophesies from the wrong perspective. Just as water baptism could be taken out of context. Baptism is a figurative example and the first step in obedience for conscience sake toward Christ after salvation. Those in the New Testament Church are to live by faith.

I believe Jesus' baptism is symbolic' date=' but not ours, I think we gain something from it. in Mark 1:4 John's baptism is said to forgive sins (this doesn't sound symbolic) [/quote']

What John preached was ?John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.? They had to have a repenting heart first. Then baptism was a show to others of their repentance. 1 Peter 3:21 ?The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:?

The Holy Spirit doesn?t abide where there is sin against God. At the very most, if there was sin in someone?s life the Holy Ghost would be quenched. Water came after the Holy Ghost was received. Acts 10:47 ?Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?? If several men received ?the Holy Ghost as well as we? they were filled, with what you might say, with the teacher to guide them into all truth.



Those men were already saved, they were ?pricked in their heart? and called those present ?Men and brethren?. So they repented and were baptized. Peter?s first epistle clarifies this.

[Julie L]

I have a question also Why do Catholics thinks it's not ok for children under 12 years old to be witnessed too? My sister is Catholic and at age 11 years old 3 years ago I sent my Nephew Gospel Tracts to witness to him. Why did a Catholic Mother say that I scared him and I have to be gentle at childrens age like that? That they don't need to know the end of times but there are children in our Baptist church that is way younger that came to knowlege of the Saviour?

Wow, I have never heard of such a thing. I can not pretend to know why your sister responded the way she did. 12 years old is a great age to witness to. So is 3. I started my kids out early! If I were to guess, and this is completely a guess. I would say she is in some way scared of what the Gospel Tracts might say "assuming" it would contradict Catholic beliefs. "maybe" she felt her son was too young. Mother's can be over protective you know. lol
Don't apply this one experience to all of Catholicism. You would be shocked to see my neighbors. Their kids are under 4 and probable know more than me!

Also, not sure how the "end of times" plays a role here, but maybe your sister was responding to that. Catholicism interprets the book of Revelations quite differently than most other religions.

I have another Question my other Sister married a Catholic man that didn't have a great marriage. His First wife had left him for some messed up reasons. The Catholic Church didn't allow the family to attend thier church because he didn't pay thousands of dollars for annulments. Why would the Catholic Church teach such a thing and act like you didn't have children prior to your recent Marriage?

Well, first I am not sure how much an annulment really cost, but I Googled it and one site said $500.00 So I'm not sure why you were told thousands, that does sound excessive to me.

Children of course do not play a role in annulments. Nor do children effect whether or not you can get married or remarried.

As far as not allowing the family to attend their church, I'm going to guess again, but their story sounds like many other's I've heard. The real issue that must be looked at here is this:
If your sister's husband had the money, "Could" he get an annulment? Did the RCC approve his annulment? It all hinges on his first marriage, and if it was a valid marriage (regardless of why she left him) if their marriage was valid, then they are seen as still married.
Do you see the problem?
If your sister's husband is still married to his first wife, he could not re-marry. So the church should have talked to them at great length about this situation. It sounds like it ended badly and the family no longer attends the church. Understandably.

If what you say is true, and her husband's annulment has been approved, but not yet paid. Maybe there is a way to help raise money for them.

Best of luck, God Bless

[BlessedChristianlady8]

Julie Thanks For Answering that Question for me. I am going to comment more later.

[Julie L]

Satan wanted to be like God and you might say he is possessed with that objective. Rebellion against God is a grievous error to commit.

Why would it matter if Satan rebelled, he had faith didn't he?
If God will judge me according to my faith only, then why judge Satan by his actions only.

Why am I not judged by my actions?

[Revelation3:20]

Why would it matter if Satan rebelled, he had faith didn't he?

No, no angel has faith in the sense a believer has faith. Angels are not humans, they have sight in areas we do not, they needed no faith, and once rejecting God cannot turn back again or repent.

Why am I not judged by my actions?

You are, and that condemns you before God since you have not come to him by faith. However, believers are not judged for salvation based on their works but based on Christs works, and so they are not condemned. If our works could in any way save us salvation would be by the law scripture teaches. Scripture also teaches that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God so salvation is only possible by grace through faith in the one and only sinless person. Christ Jesus, God and man.

[1Timothy115]

Why would it matter if Satan rebelled, he had faith didn't he?
If God will judge me according to my faith only, then why judge Satan by his actions only.

Why am I not judged by my actions?

Julie, the measuring stick for everyone and everything is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. You know that Satan tempted the Lamb of God. It's not an "if" Satan rebelled, he did rebell and it was against God. God is holy and righteous: I couldn't begin to understand the unsearchable.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Yes, God can judge Satan by actions only, he judged Adam the same way. I have faith that God's knowledge is complete.

[ptwild]

Julie, the measuring stick for everyone and everything is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. You know that Satan tempted the Lamb of God. It's not an "if" Satan rebelled, he did rebell and it was against God. God is holy and righteous: I couldn't begin to understand the unsearchable.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Yes, God can judge Satan by actions only, he judged Adam the same way. I have faith that God's knowledge is complete.

Although I don't believe that works have anything to do with salvation, I can't hide from the fact that Julie raises an interesting question. If one has faith,then why worry about anything else, such as sexual immorality, modesty, lying, cheating, stealing . . . We are saved by our faith and free from the bondage of sin. So why not live as we please? (I'm not advocating this, just bringing it up for the purpose of addressing Julie's contentions). Personally, I believe that once one has the grace of salvation through faith, they not only desire to please God, but are ashamed and repulsed by sin, just as Christ was.

[1Timothy115]

Although I don't believe that works have anything to do with salvation, I can't hide from the fact that Julie raises an interesting question. If one has faith,then why worry about anything else, such as sexual immorality, modesty, lying, cheating, stealing . . . We are saved by our faith and free from the bondage of sin. So why not live as we please? (I'm not advocating this, just bringing it up for the purpose of addressing Julie's contentions). Personally, I believe that once one has the grace of salvation through faith, they not only desire to please God, but are ashamed and repulsed by sin, just as Christ was.

ptwild,
Julie's comment is all about faith+works salvation, that is the contention she was trying to make.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[ptwild]

ptwild,
Julie's comment is all about faith+works salvation, that is the contention she was trying to make.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I'm not agreeing with Julie. I'm just addressing her question. If we are saved by faith alone (which I believe), then why worry about sin at all. Why not just live as we choose, with no concern for God's instructions regarding the proper way a Christian is to live. Why not sin as we wish, all the while knowing that our faith has already guaranteed our salvation?

[Revelation3:20]

Although I don't believe that works have anything to do with salvation, I can't hide from the fact that Julie raises an interesting question. If one has faith,then why worry about anything else, such as sexual immorality, modesty, lying, cheating, stealing . . . We are saved by our faith and free from the bondage of sin. So why not live as we please? (I'm not advocating this, just bringing it up for the purpose of addressing Julie's contentions). Personally, I believe that once one has the grace of salvation through faith, they not only desire to please God, but are ashamed and repulsed by sin, just as Christ was.

Romans 6 addresses this directly.

[Julie L]

Now here you guys go leaving me out of the conversation! lol
You're really making me work to keep up.

1Tim115, I read what you said, but please clarify something for me. It sounds like you are telling me:
We have to have Faith to have salvation AND we can not rebel (sin) against God.

If so, then we are almost on the same page!

I want to make sure I understand what you are saying because I have heard over the years several different explanations. Such as: Once a person is saved and has faith, they can no longer sin or rebel against God. (which I don't agree with because that would mean God takes away a believers "free will')
I've also heard that: Once a person is saved and has faith, that person can sin in every way possible and God doesn't see or recognize their sins. All God sees is Jesus. (A Once saved ALWAYS saved belief.)

No' date=' no angel has faith in the sense a believer has faith. Angels are not humans, they have sight in areas we do not, they needed no faith, and once rejecting God cannot turn back again or repent.[/quote']

I agree! this is how I was taught as well.

[Julie L]

Wouldn't you know it... I found a site that post an old conversation between 2 people who were talking about the same thing we are. Only the catholic there is explaining his beliefs far better than I am. You will learn more if you read what he wrote, it's not too long:

www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0303sbs.asp