Sheep and Goats

[Invicta]

Matthew 25:31-46

How are All Nations, the sheep and the goats?

[Jerry]

How are all nations what? The sheep nations are those that are saved (primarily), and the goat nations are those that are lost (primarily). I am sure it is indicating the majority of those nations - as it is individuals who are saved or lost.

[Revelation3:20]

Matthew 25:31-46

How are All Nations, the sheep and the goats?

Sheep vs. goats are speaking of individuals not nations. He gathers the peoples of the world and then separates the saved from the lost.

[Jerry]

Matthew 25 refers to nations.

Matthew 25:31-33 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

[Invicta]

How are all nations what? The sheep nations are those that are saved (primarily), and the goat nations are those that are lost (primarily). I am sure it is indicating the majority of those nations - as it is individuals who are saved or lost.

Sorry Jerry,

I should have said Who, not how.

[Jerry]

The Bible only gives a small glimpse of who in the Old Testament. And I am not sure of the exact timeline, but sometime within the last part of the tribulation or the beginning of the Millenium (though of course, they would have to turn to the Lord before Christ judges the nations or they would be turned to Hell as well).

Isaiah 19:18-25 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction. In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD. And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them. And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and OBlation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it. And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them. In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

I am assuming there will be other nations comprised of those that are saved by the end of the seven year tribulation - those that reject the Lord having died off sometime in the midst of all the judgements. Just like the Lord will purge out the rebellious unsaved from Israel (those who refuse to repent and trust the Lord once He opens their eyes):

Ezekiel 20:33-38 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD. And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

[Invicta]

Thanks for your reply Jerry.

I am not sure what it has to do with the sheep and the goats.

There was a Jewish temple in Egypt in the time of the Ptolemys.

Are the sheep Christians, if not who are they?

[Jerry]

They are those that get saved during the Tribulation. Their true faith is shown by their works, which Matthew 25 refers to. That passage also shows how those who reject the Saviour during this time will also not help God's people.

[Revelation3:20]

Matthew 25 refers to nations.

Matthew 25:31-33 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then how do you explain the next several verses? There is no way those are speaking of the nations. Those verses are speaking of individuals. You will note that the goats, those on his left hand, go to hell while those on the right hand inherit the kingdom of God. People do not go to heaven or hell based on national identity.

Matthew 25:34-46 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[Jerry]

What's the debate? God said "nations" - I think He meant nations. Yes, I agree a nation is made up of individuals; however, Matthew 25 discusses Jesus separating and judging those nations that are still in existence when He returns.

[Revelation3:20]

What's the debate? God said "nations" - I think He meant nations. Yes, I agree a nation is made up of individuals; however, Matthew 25 discusses Jesus separating and judging those nations that are still in existence when He returns.

The debate would be is Christ separating nations from each other or individuals out from the nations. I don't see Christ separating nations one from the other I see him separating individuals out from the nations.

[Jerry]

I guess that's the debate, isn't it?

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The pronoun is referring to the last noun, which makes it "nations". Individuals are not referred to here at all. You may assume this passage is referring to individuals, but where does it actually say that?

[His by Grace]

I keep studying thru this discussion...nation's or people. The LORD save's us individually, correct? Well, I'm trying to make sure I'm not understanding Matthew 25 ver 35? I believe thru this lense. Now, maybe my dispensation's or off or something yet these verses I've been studying to reach Lost Jew's of today have helped me grasp something's discussed here. Then other's in Revelation's if anyone care's to discuss just ask but I don't want to speak where I'm perhap's out of bound's, OK? I'll try to explain this real clearly, not always my stronge point! See, in Hosea 5: 15 thru 6:1 & 2 I'm persuaded this is speaking of the Messiah...He states," I will return again to my place till they acknowledge their offense" First, notice "offense" is singular here so could this be the rejection of the Messiah? so then...Where would He be "returning" from? Not 'coming' from "returning"! I don't believe I need to spend any time conviencing any of you that Isaiah 61:1, 29:18-19, 35:5 & 6 are all refering to the Messiah to come. Then Jesus came and these verses are fulfilled ie; Matt. 11: 3-5, 11:28-30 along with many, many more we mostly know here. Next real quickly Jesus states in both Rev. 1:8 and John 8:24 He is "the Almighty" and the "I am" stating He is God...I'm assuming no disagreement's so far!! Now, we were discussing Matthew 25 if "sheep and goats" are "nation's or individual people" so that's what I'm attempting to show what the LORD has shown me. It's important we remember Isaiah 46:9""Remember the former things of old: That I am God and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like Me." (this is JPS, 1917-you have the KJ to compare yourself!) Here is where it became really eye opening fo me! In Isaiah 10:21 the Hebrew " El Gibbor" is "mighty God" and then in Isaiah 9:6...has "El Gibbor" translatd as "mighty God" as well. I like to read ver. 7 here as well! So, Jesus is now known as "El Gibbor" or ""the mighty God", right? Now look up Zechariah 13: 3-4 Notice ver. 3 is "LORD" and ver.4 state's "his feet shall stand" in that day upon the mount of Olives,... So, this is Yahweh standing in a physical form but then we find it's Jesus in Acts 1: 9-12 that comes and stands on mount olivet, right? Then if you look in Daniel 7: 27 we see "serve" the Hebrew word being "pelach" and this verse states"...shall be given to the PEOPLE, the SAINTS of the Most High(JPS,1917- see your KJ) then in Daniel 7:14 same word "serve" is "pelach" are worshipping the Messiah-see ver.13! In verse 14 it states "...was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that ALL PEOPLE, nations, and lanquages, should serve Him..." I was studying one thing but while doing so "THE PEOPLE" stood out to me! Now it does mention nations but aren't nations made up of people? Wouldn't this be like my saying, "Our family will be there by the Grace of God this evening!" We understand that "The Family" is made up of dad, mom and however many children you have...each INDIVIDUALLY had to come to the Lord for salvation. So, there are SHEEP and GOAT"S but in these living in NATIONS there are THEM the people saved or not saved INDIVIDUALLY. I didn't mean to take such along way around to explain what He showed me but that was condensed but in order that I was shown. Make since to anyone else? His by Grace

[Revelation3:20]

I guess that's the debate, isn't it?

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The pronoun is referring to the last noun, which makes it "nations". Individuals are not referred to here at all. You may assume this passage is referring to individuals, but where does it actually say that?

Could it be that "them" is going back to the parables he just told? He gives two parables in Matthew 25, the parable of the ten virgins and then the parable of the talents. In the parable of the talents he is speaking of individuals and contrasts the profitable servants with the unprofitable servants. Immediately after that he discusses what he will do when he comes in his glory.

[Jerry]

In what other type of writing do they ever do that? Context is important. The context is the nations that Jesus gathers at His return.

Why is it so hard to believe that by the end of the Tribulation period (7 years) that the unsaved within certain nations will have died, and that there are only saved left in certain nations? It will certainly be the case with Israel - why not other nations?

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.