Altar Call for Salvation

[TheGloryLand]

l strongly believe you should leave that church that don’t practices…

Churches that are not having an invitations to receive Christ, as their personal savior. During the service or at the end of the services, in my opinion are letting a great opportunity get by. At the altar or from where the person is seated. Especially if there are visitors that day. 

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

l strongly believe you should leave that church that don’t practices…

Churches that are not having an invitations to receive Christ, as their personal savior. During the service or at the end of the services, in my opinion are letting a great opportunity get by. At the altar or from where the person is seated. Especially if there are visitors that day. 

Giving an altar call doesn't guarantee that the person in attendance will walk an aisle. Letting people know that if they wish to make a decision at the end of a service to come and speak to the pastor or one of the members should suffice. The working of the Holy Spirit should not be limited to the man-made notion of an altar call.

[Pastor Matt]

I think a good place to begin here so that we're all on the same page and to be clear, what we mean by the term “altar call”?

From my experience, nothing is wrong with an altar call, but it can be wrong in how they are done?

[TheGloryLand]

13 minutes ago, Pastor Matt said:

I think a good place to begin here so that we're all on the same page and to be clear, what we mean by the term “altar call”?

From my experience, nothing is wrong with an altar call, but it can be wrong in how they are done?

Absolutely, it must be done in an orderly way. unfortunately, I’m in the middle of making a major decision to leave the church. I’ve been attending for almost 15 years. New Pastor, no altar calls, no baptisms, baptisms discipline, or new memberships. good Pastor good preaching, family but no vision. Becoming a feel good church with new people coming from other churches. Sad, yes, I spoke to him about it, with no results weeks later.

[BrotherTony]

6 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

Absolutely, it must be done in an orderly way. unfortunately, I’m in the middle of making a major decision to leave the church. I’ve been attending for almost 15 years. New Pastor, no altar calls, no baptisms, baptisms discipline, or new memberships. good Pastor good preaching, family but no vision. Becoming a feel good church with new people coming from other churches. Sad, yes, I spoke to him about it, with no results weeks later.

If I were you, I would be looking to see if I was leaving for the right reasons. I'm not in your church, so I can't say. But, it doesn't sound like there's anything doctrinally wrong with the church. It sounds more like personal preferences and your disapproval and disappointment. I'm not saying that there is necessarily anything wrong with leaving for those reasons, though it does sound petty. 

[TheGloryLand]

Christmas time is a good time do altar calls, for salvation. Catholic strongly celebrate Christmas. There is a good change for them to understand the true meaning of Christmas, if there is one or more visiting. Can we have someone here, show you from the bible, how to be Saved? Please Come

[R Sauter]

I am trying really hard to find an instance in the Gospels where Jesus ever gave an "Altar Call!"

"Now, every head bowed, every eye closed... who would like to receive me in your heart right now? I see that hand over there..., now, pray this prayer with me..."

A preacher is responsible to proclaim the Gospel with clarity and from there, trust the Lord to bring forth the increase. The "Finneyesque" model of evangelism has done more to fill the Church with false converts than any heretical cult ever has! You cannot manipulate anyone into being saved.

[TheGloryLand]

56 minutes ago, R Sauter said:

I am trying really hard to find an instance in the Gospels where Jesus ever gave an "Altar Call!"

"Now, every head bowed, every eye closed... who would like to receive me in your heart right now? I see that hand over there..., now, pray this prayer with me..."

A preacher is responsible to proclaim the Gospel with clarity and from there, trust the Lord to bring forth the increase. The "Finneyesque" model of evangelism has done more to fill the Church with false converts than any heretical cult ever has! You cannot manipulate anyone into being saved.

I rather have an Alta call, I know Jesus didn’t do it in the New Testament and there’s a lot of things Hedid, that we don’t do today,that we should. If the Holy Spirit is working during a message, why not share the gospel so they can fully understand, not just tell him or her to go home and think about it. Preachers don’t have any problem telling them to stay for the dinner after church. Why not give them the spiritual dinner first. this is in my humble opinion and there’s many ways to share the gospel of salvation.

[R Sauter]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

I rather have an Alta call, I know Jesus didn’t do it in the New Testament and there’s a lot of things Hedid, that we don’t do today,that we should. If the Holy Spirit is working during a message, why not share the gospel so they can fully understand, not just tell him or her to go home and think about it. Preachers don’t have any problem telling them to stay for the dinner after church. Why not give them the spiritual dinner first. this is in my humble opinion and there’s many ways to share the gospel of salvation.

First of all, is someone's salvation up to us or is it up to God? Think about this very carefully.

If the Holy Spirit is working on and dealing with a person, he will continue to do so without our meddling or manipulating! Perhaps the phrase "Quench not the Spirit" is applicable here?

There are many "Pulpiteers" who are masters at getting people down the aisle to make a "Decision" for Christ but salvation is not about a "Decision," it is about REGENERATION which only God can bring about.

I will speak from personal experience here. Carl Hatch preached a revival meeting at my church in San Diego back in the 80s and we had a good number of young Sailors and Marines coming from off the military bases in the area. If you knew anything about Carl Hatch, you would know he is over the top "persuasive" in his methodology and before we knew it, the altar was filled! I dealt with one such Sailor and got him to "Pray and trust Christ" and then I talked to him about baptism which we were prepared to do on the spot. He declined and I respected that. Carl Hatch comes over and asks me about this Sailor and I told him what happened. He went right over and said something to him which got him to immediately get up and go into the back to get baptized. I was never able to find out what he said and I never again saw that young Sailor!

He may be a preacher or missionary somewhere now but more than likely, he is a militant atheist who, once upon a time, "Prayed to trust Christ as his Savior" and no way in hell anyone will ever again be able to genuinely communicate the gospel message to him ever again! Go and check out the atheist and skeptic forums and groups and find out how many of such militant atheists have similar testimonies! You think perhaps someone will be standing before God and giving account of this?

The "Church House" is mainly a place for BELIEVERS to come together and meet for instruction, encouragement, and edification. It is not a perpetual "Revival Meeting" with people walking the "Sawdust Trail!" Look at all the examples in the book of Acts and you will see that most of the evangelism was done in the marketplace, out in the "open air" and during daily interactions. They were later baptized and added to the Church but usually only after a careful examination.

[BrotherTony]

51 minutes ago, R Sauter said:

First of all, is someone's salvation up to us or is it up to God? Think about this very carefully.

If the Holy Spirit is working on and dealing with a person, he will continue to do so without our meddling or manipulating! Perhaps the phrase "Quench not the Spirit" is applicable here?

There are many "Pulpiteers" who are masters at getting people down the aisle to make a "Decision" for Christ but salvation is not about a "Decision," it is about REGENERATION which only God can bring about.

I will speak from personal experience here. Carl Hatch preached a revival meeting at my church in San Diego back in the 80s and we had a good number of young Sailors and Marines coming from off the military bases in the area. If you knew anything about Carl Hatch, you would know he is over the top "persuasive" in his methodology and before we knew it, the altar was filled! I dealt with one such Sailor and got him to "Pray and trust Christ" and then I talked to him about baptism which we were prepared to do on the spot. He declined and I respected that. Carl Hatch comes over and asks me about this Sailor and I told him what happened. He went right over and said something to him which got him to immediately get up and go into the back to get baptized. I was never able to find out what he said and I never again saw that young Sailor!

He may be a preacher or missionary somewhere now but more than likely, he is a militant atheist who, once upon a time, "Prayed to trust Christ as his Savior" and no way in hell anyone will ever again be able to genuinely communicate the gospel message to him ever again! Go and check out the atheist and skeptic forums and groups and find out how many of such militant atheists have similar testimonies! You think perhaps someone will be standing before God and giving account of this?

The "Church House" is mainly a place for BELIEVERS to come together and meet for instruction, encouragement, and edification. It is not a perpetual "Revival Meeting" with people walking the "Sawdust Trail!" Look at all the examples in the book of Acts and you will see that most of the evangelism was done in the marketplace, out in the "open air" and during daily interactions. They were later baptized and added to the Church but usually only after a careful examination.

I somewhat disagree with your last sentence, Ray. Where is your evidence for this? How long of an examination? I see that they were baptized and added to the church that same day. 

Also, on the subject of REGENERATION, we agree that the Holy Spirit is the one who brings this about, but you need to be aware that most of the participants here won't agree with any "Calvinistic" doctrine. Just a heads up. 

Personally, when it comes to"alter calls," I am against them. In my experience many of the"showman" pastors, and I'll give the example of Tony Huston here, stand in front of the congregation, voice worbling, fake teary eyes, and a thousand verses of"Just as I Am" being sung, allegedly under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I grew up in that circus and can now say "Not my circus, not my monkeys." I can say, though, that I am not against a short invitation with no showmanship. I've seen the Holy Spirit work with and also without any of this. But, that's just my opinion. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by BrotherTony

[R Sauter]

2 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

I somewhat disagree with your last sentence, Ray. Where is your evidence for this? How long of an examination? I see that they were baptized and added to the church that same day. 

Also, on the subject of REGENERATION, we agree that the Holy Spirit is the one who brings this about, but you need to be aware that most of the participants here won't agree with any "Calvinistic" doctrine. Just a heads up. 

I'm mainly thinking of the Apostle Paul. They were quite careful in welcoming him into the fellowship of the believers due to his past. Last thing they wanted was to let a potential "Wolf" know where the "sheep" were meeting. From here, I would say this was a general concern at the time seeing that Christians often had to meet secretly. In many instances, there seemed to be no "waiting time" for baptism but baptisms were also open and public to the peril of the new believer who was making a "Public Profession" to the world.

In this day and age, I am adamantly for a time of careful examination for the benefit of the believer as well as the Church. This often takes place in baptism and new believer classes which are typically taught by a Pastor/Elder who has oversight and accountability. During this time, many who "think" they are saved actually become saved. This includes one of my adopted daughters and she is doing quite well now! Such classes go for around six weeks after which the Church holds a "Baptism Service" and I would have serious objections if a baptism were to be delayed any further. I personally wish I better understood what I was doing before I got "dunked."

Regarding the subject of REGENERATION, this should be a genuine concern for all regardless of whether or not they are Calvinistic and I would rather leave Calvinism out of such a discussion. People had better understand the difference between "Decisionism" and Holy Ghost Regeneration and this matter is a hill for which I am prepared to fight and die upon.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, R Sauter said:

I'm mainly thinking of the Apostle Paul. They were quite careful in welcoming him into the fellowship of the believers due to his past. Last thing they wanted was to let a potential "Wolf" know where the "sheep" were meeting. From here, I would say this was a general concern at the time seeing that Christians often had to meet secretly. In many instances, there seemed to be no "waiting time" for baptism but baptisms were also open and public to the peril of the new believer who was making a "Public Profession" to the world.

In this day and age, I am adamantly for a time of careful examination for the benefit of the believer as well as the Church. This often takes place in baptism and new believer classes which are typically taught by a Pastor/Elder who has oversight and accountability. During this time, many who "think" they are saved actually become saved. This includes one of my adopted daughters and she is doing quite well now! Such classes go for around six weeks after which the Church holds a "Baptism Service" and I would have serious objections if a baptism were to be delayed any further. I personally wish I better understood what I was doing before I got "dunked."

Regarding the subject of REGENERATION, this should be a genuine concern for all regardless of whether or not they are Calvinistic and I would rather leave Calvinism out of such a discussion. People had better understand the difference between "Decisionism" and Holy Ghost Regeneration and this matter is a hill for which I am prepared to fight and die upon.

I can definitely agree with you on the need for baptism classes in many instances. Yet, I wouldn't require it of all. In the case of Saul/Paul I could definitely understand their questioning of events. I clearly believe that there is a need for careful examination of many of those who claim to have been converted. 

On the "Decisionism" challenge, I believe you and I had several discussions on this on another platform,  and I believe we were in complete agreement. I have a very dear pastor friend who declares the gospel every day for several hours, handing out Bibles and "leading" people to the Lord. He has had many decisions, but, when pressed to answer whether or not these "converts" are truly saved, the best I can get from him is that the Bible says they are and to let the Lord sort them out. He pastors a reasonable sized IFB church, and I had a lot of respect for his father before he passed. For some the Hyles mentality of soul winning is the real deal and acceptable. But quick decisions lead to false converts and the person still on their way to a devil's hell. 

[R Sauter]

3 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I have a very dear pastor friend who declares the gospel every day for several hours, handing out Bibles and "leading" people to the Lord. He has had many decisions, but, when pressed to answer whether or not these "converts" are truly saved, the best I can get from him is that the Bible says they are and to let the Lord sort them out. He pastors a reasonable sized IFB church, and I had a lot of respect for his father before he passed.

I would not set this in stone or anything but one thing I would look for is whether this pastor was able to maintain contact and establish a relationship with those he has "led to the Lord." I know that this will not always be the case - especially those you meet in passing, on a plane, on vacation, or whatever, but leaving someone on "good terms" is possibly the best possible outcome you could hope for - whether they trust Christ or not. Many will just "Pray the Prayer" with you because you are being obnoxious and just want to get you to leave them alone! The Sailor in the example I gave is a prime example.

I guess one who fits this criteria would be Pastor Paul Chappell of whom you know we have much in disagreement but his Church is filled with many that he has personally led to the Lord so I guess this says something about him. He does preach repentance (to the ire of the "New IFB" Crowd) and his invitations (as I remember) are not overly manipulative.

[BrotherTony]

16 minutes ago, R Sauter said:

I would not set this in stone or anything but one thing I would look for is whether this pastor was able to maintain contact and establish a relationship with those he has "led to the Lord." I know that this will not always be the case - especially those you meet in passing, on a plane, on vacation, or whatever, but leaving someone on "good terms" is possibly the best possible outcome you could hope for - whether they trust Christ or not. Many will just "Pray the Prayer" with you because you are being obnoxious and just want to get you to leave them alone! The Sailor in the example I gave is a prime example.

I guess one who fits this criteria would be Pastor Paul Chappell of whom you know we have much in disagreement but his Church is filled with many that he has personally led to the Lord so I guess this says something about him. He does preach repentance (to the ire of the "New IFB" Crowd) and his invitations (as I remember) are not overly manipulative.

Pastor Chappells invitations are in line with what SHOULD be done. He, IMHO, doesn't try to manipulate anyone into a decision. I've always appreciated it. As you may remember, I lost a lot of respect for him over how my sister and now ex bils tenure there was terminated. But, that's in the past, over and done. Over the years much of that respect has been gained back. Still, there are still some disagreements. But, Christ is being preached, and that's what matters. 

[Jerry]

A true “altar call” as they say is calling upon someone to react to the message - and that IS Biblical. Whether they go forward, respond in their seat, are encouraged to seek out the pastor or one of the other church workers for help in understanding the Gospel or how to trust in Jesus as Saviour all depend on the individual - but if a church does not challenge people to respond to the message in some way right after they hear it, they are missing an opportunity, and that person may never get saved or deal with whatever issues the message touched upon. What is important is responding in your heart to the Lord, whether you go forward to “the altar” or pray where you are sitting.