Questions about the biblical basis for KJVO

[Annie]

Correct, except it isn't "my" definition, it is scriptural. I assume you can agree that the heart and Spirit are part of the being.

I agree that a person's heart and spirit are parts of his being.

We already established with scripture that spoken words come from the heart.

Spoken words can reveal what is in a person's heart--yes. They can just as easily conceal what is in a person's heart. You and I can lie to someone, and hide our true feelings about something. But, yes, taking it a step further, when a person speaks a lie, he reveals himself to be a liar in his heart.

We also established that the words Jesus spoke were Spirit, what Spirit would that be if not his own Spirit?

Jesus did not say that His words were HIS Spirit, as in "His words" = "His spirit." This is where you overreach and put words in the mouth of Christ, which is a grievous error indeed. "Spirit" has other meanings besides "the spirit of the person who is speaking." (Check dictionary.com for other possible connotations.) There is no personal modifier (or any modifier at all in the KJV) before the word "spirit" in that verse. A commentary might help us to discover what Christ is saying there.

It is poor hermeneutics to base an entire doctrine or line of thinking on one verse of Scripture, anyway. You have made this one verse (the meaning of which is almost certainly not what you have described, given the wording) the key to proving that "word" equals "Jesus's spirit."

God spoke the scriptures. They are a part of him just as my words are a part of me. They can not fail or pass away. It has everything to do with the issue.

Seth, I've already said that I believe that God's words do not ever pass away. I believe that God's words are preserved, just as He promised they would be. I don't see the need to adopt a strange line of thinking (that "words" are the same thing as "a person's spirit") to get to this point.

I believe scripture teaches that words come out of the heart and thus are part of it. If you feel otherwise define the difference with scripture.

Seth, with all due respect, your application of the connection between "words" and "a person's spirit" is not found in Scripture, for the reason I mentioned above. But, as I've said, you really don't need this line of reasoning to believe in preservation of God's written words.

In the NT Jesus states that the scripture cannot be broken. You cannot believe God is perfect without believing scripture is perfect.

I believe that the scripture cannot be broken. I believe that God's words are perfect words. We agree completely in this.

If you believe "Gods Word" originally was perfect but that he has allowed that perfection to be lost(which is what this usually boils down too), so that his people must stumble and guess at the truth, you don't understand the scriptures nor the power and mind of God.

Have I said that God has "allowed that perfection to be lost?" I certainly don't believe that His words are any less perfect these days than they were when He uttered them. No perfection has been lost. I just don't believe that God ever promised that all of His preserved words would be gathered together in only one publicly accessible volume.

Do you stand in awe of the bible or do you pick and choose what you believe is his Word?

I could ask the same question of you and any other KJVO advocate. You have "picked and chosen" one version--one volume only--that you believe is His Word, and eschew all others. How am I different than you in this?

[Guest Guest]

I do think that those who believe KJV in English is the only "true" translation should pick up the manuscripts in the original language so they do not have to say this means this at this that so forth. It is hard fo me to believe that the only "true" bible is in English. For me to question what others feel in their personal realtionship with Christ is wrong. We should not put people down because they do not know how to read the KJV or find it confusing. It has nothing to do with Public Education it is a heart thing when you accept Christ and allow him to work I believe he can work in any language with any bible translation wrong or right. I prefer KJV and get it! Others might not so try not not result into bashing public education and people who have difficulty reading it is not Christ like.

[Annie]

I have appreciated everyone's responses to my question; thank you. I think I will give Seth an opportunity to have the last word, if he wishes to respond to my latest post, and then I'll close the thread down. Others are still welcome to post as well. If no new (scriptural) light is shed on this issue, I'll most likely lock the thread sometime tomorrow afternoon.

[John81]

I do think that those who believe KJV in English is the only "true" translation should pick up the manuscripts in the original language so they do not have to say this means this at this that so forth. It is hard fo me to believe that the only "true" bible is in English. For me to question what others feel in their personal realtionship with Christ is wrong. We should not put people down because they do not know how to read the KJV or find it confusing. It has nothing to do with Public Education it is a heart thing when you accept Christ and allow him to work I believe he can work in any language with any bible translation wrong or right. I prefer KJV and get it! Others might not so try not not result into bashing public education and people who have difficulty reading it is not Christ like.

The "originals" no longer exist. There is no need to refer back to anything because the KJB is clear. If one needs help understanding certain words there are dictionaries, even KJB-specific dictionaries to help folks.

The American public education system is a mess, that's a fact, not "bashing". Thousands graduate each year from public high schools with limited reading ability, as well as poor understanding in most other subjects. This is why virtually every college/university today has remedial programs.

I do believe if one is open to the leading of the Lord, He will guide them to what they should read.

I know some very solid, faithful Christians who use MVs. I don't know how they do it, but they do.

[Guest Guest]

So the only original bible is the 1611 KJV in English all the other stuff is gone? What about the Greek versions that date way back? There not original? Where does it say in bible prophecy that in 1611 I will let a terrible king commision the writing of Gods only "true" bible version. Sorry I find that hard to belive I will do some more research I am sure there will be another thread sometime. Some bible versions do attempt to keep the original 1611 KJ version without losing the meaning so you do not need a dictionary.

[John81]

The original manuscripts are no longer available. What is available, even that which dates "way back", are copies.

[Jerry]

when you accept Christ and allow him to work I believe he can work in any language with any bible translation wrong or right.

So all those Bible passages about truth and contending for the faith, etc. don't mean anything? If God can use anything - any Bible translation - why don't we just hand out the New World Translation to everyone. Hey, the Jehovah Witnesses are going around door to door, dropping them off for free. Let's let them bear the expense and we will come by later and encourage them to read that version, and let God do His work.

And before you say I have gone to extremes in my example: many MVs are translated from the exact same manuscripts as the New World Translation. Some error is not acceptable in cult literature (ie. you wouldn't pass that one on), BUT you will accept error in the Bibles you encourage/let everyone else read.

[Annie]

Seth (and others), if I haven't given you enough time to respond, and I'll reopen this thread (or open another one on the same topic). I'll go ahead and lock this one now, since it seems we've exhausted the conversation on this topic.