Man Can Live With Out A Woman...

[HappyChristian]

My beliefs don't matter.  My reading of the bible does in fact say that a pastor and deacon must be married (maybe a widower?) and have had at least two children (not sure if one dying disqualifies him).  I don't see any "ifs" or "maybes" or "shoulds" in those verses.  Well, actually, if a child dies before a man has a chance to "prove" that he can rule his house well, which would of necessity mean more than one living child who grew to adulthood, then he would still be disqualified.  Else how can it be "proved" that he can handle it?  His lifestyle certainly wouldn't prove anything, now would it?  And, no, a widower, under your terms, could NOT pastor or be a deacon because a widower would not be married anymore (marriage does end at death, does it not?).  BUT a divorced man could pastor because he only has one wife...but then, you stipulated before that wasn't right, correct?  Sorry, but a divorced man only has one wife, because divorce (even though God hates it) does end a marriage. *shrugs* 

 

Can you not see how you're adding rules and regulations that God didn't put in there?  How many children are enough? Two? Well, as was pointed out, if one dies before adulthood, that man no longer has children, but one child.  So, to be safe, he must have three.  Maybe that's why they were polygamous back then.  Just in case one wife couldn't give them three children... God calls a man and doesn't give him kids, so he's not qualified?  SMH.  

 

Confused laughter, I took it wrong, sorry.

 

1 Corinthians 7 doesn't refer to pastoring or the office of deacon, just service to the Lord. Oh. So pastoring or being a deacon isn't service to the Lord. Mmmkay....pastors and deacons are under the same instruction to Christian living as any other Christian.  

 

God preserved his Word for the English speaking people in the King James Bible, I don't need the Greek to to know what God says about something.  That being said, A Pastor and Deacon MUST be the husband of one wife and MUST be the father of at least two children as "children" is plural, more than one, in those verses.  It doesn't say, if, should or maybe.  A little Greek never hurt anyone.  Yes, He did preserve His Word for us in English...and just like sometimes we need a dictionary to understand the meaning of a word, so too sometimes it's good to understand the meaning behind certain phrases and terms as written in an age where English had different definitions than it does now, and to learn the culture of the time period in which that language was written.  

 

Any claim that a single man can pastor a church or a married man with one child can pastor a church is heresy according to 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.  Are there other verses that speak of pastoral qualifications that I'm missing?    Heresy?  Okay. I see you have a clear understanding of what heresy is.  Not.

I daresay some men who are pastors would be highly offended (not that they should take offense, though) by your suggestion that they must have more than one child in order to pastor. I know of one, at least, on this board who would.  And who it is might just surprise you, too...

[swathdiver]

I just knew you would go after the things I was unsure about and shift the issue or try to discredit my reading of the Bible.  

 

No, I did not add any rules.   You're the one who says a single man can pastor a church, a divorced man can pastor a church, or a man with but one child can pastor a church.  I'm no English major but even my children who know predicates and pronouns and all the other parts of sentence structure and such interpreted God's Word rightly last night when I asked them to read these passages.  

 

It's you who has gotten it wrong.  Just because you know someone or a loved one who is a pastor and doesn't meet those qualifications doesn't make it ok in God's eyes.  There's no ifs ands or buts about it.  

 

I'm bowing out of this conversation, it is no longer edifying.

[HappyChristian]

I just knew you would go after the things I was unsure about and shift the issue or try to discredit my reading of the Bible.  Wow. Nothing like a civil discussion, now is there?  I didn't "go after" anything you were unsure about.  I simply pointed out the inconsistency.  And where did I try to discredit your reading of the Bible?  Nowhere, that's where. 

 

No, I did not add any rules.   You're the one who says a single man can pastor a church, a divorced man can pastor a church, or a man with but one child can pastor a church.  I'm no English major but even my children who know predicates and pronouns and all the other parts of sentence structure and such interpreted God's Word rightly last night when I asked them to read these passages.  Beg pardon, I NEVER said a divorced man could pastor a church.  I was pointing out that the idea that one MUST be married to pastor can lead to that - and I also pointed out that you don't agree with a divorced man pastoring.

 

It's you who has gotten it wrong.  Just because you know someone or a loved one who is a pastor and doesn't meet those qualifications doesn't make it ok in God's eyes.  There's no ifs ands or buts about it.  No, I haven't gotten it wrong.  And there are ifs, ands, or buts - you brought them up yourself...How many kids must one have?  What about widowers?       Wow!  The only one I "know" who only has one child is actually on this forum.  No loved ones, sorry (in fact, though, I did have a loved one who wanted to pastor...because of his marital situation I had to tell him he wasn't qualified (actually his wife and I had the conversation)...he didn't speak to me for a long time).  Don't know where you got that idea.  My hubby and I don't base our beliefs on who we know or don't know.

 

I'm bowing out of this conversation, it is no longer edifying.  Do you know why it's no longer edifying?  Because you can't answer the inconsistencies that have been pointed out.  And that's not a disrespect on you - it's the same with anyone.  To stand by something that has holes in it causes discomfort because it does have holes in it.  Maybe you could talk to your pastor about it and get his take?