Wondering

[1Timothy115]

Are there any Roman "Catholic" Church members here at OB?

I know the question is to a board for IFBers but, I just wondered.

When a little girl turns 8 years old and gets baptised in the Roman Church what does it mean?

Or, is it a ritual of passage, membership, or...?

[Julie L]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you know anymore about this 8 year olds situation?

Catholic's believe that Baptism is how we become a member of God's family, and that it is universal...so the only reason to baptize is if someone has not yet been baptized? Regardless of age.
Do you know if this 8 year was ever baptized before? If she was then there is no reason to do it again.

I wish I could help more, but if you have any details that may help.
Jules

[1Timothy115]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you know anymore about this 8 year olds situation?

Catholic's believe that Baptism is how we become a member of God's family, and that it is universal...so the only reason to baptize is if someone has not yet been baptized? Regardless of age.
Do you know if this 8 year was ever baptized before? If she was then there is no reason to do it again.

I wish I could help more, but if you have any details that may help.
Jules

Never baptized before.

[Julie L]

I'm sorry, I failed to tell you that I am Catholic (30 some years now) I found this site while I was doing a research project a few months back. Well, any how, here is my best guess. And only a guess.

If this 8 year old girl is a recent convert to Catholicism and was not baptized, I find that strange. It is my understanding that before a person becomes Catholic, they are baptized.

Also, it might be wise to tell you that Catholic children receive their First Communion when they are seven or eight years of age because this is considered the age of reason.

Is it possible that she may have been recently baptized so she could make her First Communion?
First Communion is usually around the first 2 weeks of May.

Does this help you?

[1Timothy115]

Yes, thanks this gives some insight.

I was wondering how baptism was viewed by individuals?

Also, how is the first communion viewed by the individual, since you mention it?

If you answer and can do so, please give a personal explaination of how you interpret these.

[Julie L]

I'll try my best.
Hopefully I answered your question about baptism in another post also labeled "Wondering". Not sure if you have read it yet. Let me know if that is not what you are asking, and I'll try again.

Concerning First Communion, it is a very important and holy day for Catholic children because they are receiving, for the first time, the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It is seen as a celebration.

Usually this means that a child has studied and understood, to the best of her abilities, the mystery of transubstantiation, the changing of the substance of ordinary bread and wine into the substance of Christ's body and blood.

In order for anyone to receive communion, that person must be without sin and in a state of grace.
Traditionally, young Catholic children will make their first confession, or the Sacrament of Penance, a week before receiving their First Communion. At confession, the child will detail sins and misdeeds to a priest and receive a penance in exchange.

Confession isn't the only requirement for receiving the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist. The Sacrament of Baptism must have been received as well. If the child is baptized, she generally begins studying for First Communion in first grade.

On the day of one's First Communion, and whenever receiving communion thereafter, those partaking must, out of respect for the body and blood of Christ, observe another rule: At least one hour before reception of the sacrament, they must fast, which means they may not eat any food. Taking water and medicine, however, are exceptions. After First Communion, young Catholics must attend church every Sunday. If one has missed Sunday mass without good reason (ie. sick, caring for the sick) or has committed a mortal (serious) sin, that person is expected to go to confession before receiving communion again.

[1Timothy115]

Julie,
What do you personally believe?

[Julie L]

humm, interesting question. Why ask for my personal belief?
I believe in what I wrote above. But those are just the basics. There is so much more to it that I believe.

[1Timothy115]

humm, interesting question. Why ask for my personal belief?
I believe in what I wrote above. But those are just the basics. There is so much more to it that I believe.

I'm interested in the personal perspective to help better understand how some of my family views the traditions of their church. I'm honestly attempting to understand those family members through a 3rd person's perspective. I will be asking them some of these same questions...at some point. You know there isn't an obligation and you've already provided some great insight. Thanks for that.

You could always PM if you prefer.

[Julie L]

Wow, I am very impressed at your approach to understand another view point, knowing that you don't have to share their views to understand them. I wish you the best of luck and you can ask me anything if you think it will help prepare you.

To answer your question about baptism, I suppose the most common answer you will find is that we believe baptism is a sacrament that removes original sin. We can not EARN this, therefore it doesn't matter what age you are when you are baptized. I also believe that through baptism we become a member of God's chosen people, his family. I believe that everyone who is baptized becomes a part of the Body of Christ, making us all brothers and sisters in Christ. And that once we are baptized the Holy Spirit can work in us and through us much easier. Helping us to do God's will and grow closer to Him.

Concerning First Communion, I believe it is basically a celebration that marks the first time we receive the Body and Blood of Christ Jesus. It does make a child feel very grown up and is a milestone. But I'm not sure all 7-8 year olds fully understand the Catholic view of transubstantiation. I know I sure didn't at that age. But I was raised in family that did not "teach" Catholic beliefs. You would probably call my family "church goers" who prayed a lot, but taught very little. Thankfully they have changed since I was a child.

[1Timothy115]

Some questions come to mind from reading the last post.

To answer your question about baptism, I suppose the most common answer you will find is that we believe baptism is a sacrament that removes original sin.

Why did Christ get baptized?

We can not EARN this, therefore it doesn't matter what age you are when you are baptized.

I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?can not EARN this??

I also believe that through baptism we become a member of God's chosen people, his family. I believe that everyone who is baptized becomes a part of the Body of Christ, making us all brothers and sisters in Christ.

What do you think about a sinner repenting just before death and without baptism?

And that once we are baptized the Holy Spirit can work in us and through us much easier. Helping us to do God's will and grow closer to Him.

Why would baptism make the Holy Spirit?s work easier?

Concerning First Communion, I believe it is basically a celebration that marks the first time we receive the Body and Blood of Christ Jesus. It does make a child feel very grown up and is a milestone. But I'm not sure all 7-8 year olds fully understand the Catholic view of transubstantiation.

You mentioned before that it was ordinary bread and wine turned into the body (flesh) and blood of Christ. Did you ever taste the bread or wine before it was turned into flesh and blood; was there a difference?

I hope these don't sound rediculous, they are true questions.

[Julie L]

Why did Christ get baptized?

To set an example for us. Jesus did not need to be baptized. But I think He knew that we are visual people. Most of the time we only trust what we can see with our own eyes. So Jesus gave us a visual. We are called to imitate Jesus and I think Baptism is one of the major beliefs, so I can understand why He was baptized, even though He didn't need to be.

[Julie L]

I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?can not EARN this??

I believe Baptism is a gift. So it is not a reward for a pious Christian life, or held back until we have a certain form of conversion. Just like we do not deserve or earn our salvation, nor can we earn the grace of baptism. In other words an adult does not deserve baptism any more than an infant - who has earned nothing.

What do you think about a sinner repenting just before death and without baptism?

Who can know? I hope that the repenting would be good enough. This would be up to God.
Catholics also believe there are 3 types of baptism. The normal one of course is through water like you know it. Second- Baptism through desire: meaning a person dies before they can be baptized the normal way, but that they desire to be baptized. After all, not everyone is born with the possibility of being baptized. This would be the best way to answer your question above.
Third- Baptism through blood: not my favorite one, this would be martyrdom. Meaning before a person could be baptized the normal way, they died for Christ.

Why would baptism make the Holy Spirit?s work easier?

I look at it this way: Say you see a local business that is suffering. How do you help them out? Well, you could buy their products or services, or donate money and hope they use it wisely. But you would have little effect on that business in the long run. The most effective way to help them would be to become a part of that business. So you could work from within and help make important decisions It would be "easier" to make changes from within, than it is from the outside.
This is how I see it for the Holy Spirit. Through Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit into us. Making it easier for Him to do his work.

Did you ever taste the bread or wine before it was turned into flesh and blood; was there a difference?

No, I have never tasted the bread and wine before the consecration. But it would taste the exact same. Transubstantiation means that the bread and wine maintain their shape, color, taste, smell, etc. But that the substance has changed. Jesus is now present within it. Some say Jesus is hidden in the Eucharist. After all, who wants to see or taste flesh and blood? not me.
But there is one difference I can tell you about. Once the bread and wine are consecrated, they do not decompose! At least not that anyone has been able to see yet. There are some consecrated host that are hundreds of years old. And even though they are not kept in a fridge or in an air tight compartment, they maintain as fresh and white and crisp as they did when they were consecrated.

you can check out this site for more details:
http.//www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

[Revelation3:20]

But there is one difference I can tell you about. Once the bread and wine are consecrated, they do not decompose! At least not that anyone has been able to see yet. There are some consecrated host that are hundreds of years old. And even though they are not kept in a fridge or in an air tight compartment, they maintain as fresh and white and crisp as they did when they were consecrated.

Can you save some and see for yourself or is that against the rules? I would like to see that, if it is an "always" thing and not special unique "miracle" it should be easy to prove. I wouldn't even require it to stay fresh and crisp more than a couple of months in the open, certainly not hundreds of years. :smile

[1Timothy115]

To set an example for us. Jesus did not need to be baptized. But I think He knew that we are visual people. Most of the time we only trust what we can see with our own eyes. So Jesus gave us a visual. We are called to imitate Jesus and I think Baptism is one of the major beliefs, so I can understand why He was baptized, even though He didn't need to be.

An example...no need: I can see this. So Jesus was teaching us it was symbolic, an act of obedience, and possibly for us to show forth to others we are following Christ? Christ was talking to a majority and most likely all Jew audience. I know there are verses in the Bible explaining the Jews require a sign and I'm sure there are verses explaining New Testament Christians are to rely on faith. 1 Corinthians 1:22 and Hebrews 11:1

What are your thoughts about this?