Interpretation and Scripture

[farouk]

It's always good to try to interpret the Bible in a sound way.

Sometimes it can be easy to be drawn into pulling verses from here and there and putting them together and the result is rather unsatisfactory.

So it can be useful to ask various questions, such as:

Who is speaking in the passage? Who is being spoken to? and when?

For example there are two verses of Scripture here:

'And Judas went and hanged himself.'

'Go thou and do likewise.'

From an interpretational point of view, it can be unsound to jump to conclusions too quickly, right?

We need to ask sensible questions first before, in a fit of enthusiasm, we pull one verse from somewhere and make it apply to completely different situations.

[Covenanter]

We can only "interpret" Scripture after we have understood it:
in it's context of time & circumstances;
in relation to other Scriptures with a similar theme.

Have understood, we need to understand whether "interpretation" is necessary, or whether we can put the teaching into practice in our lives.

If interpretation is necessary, we should first consider what it teaches about Jesus, in relation to his earthly ministry, saving work, heavenly reign & return, & again, how that affects our lives.

For instance, Zechariah:
we learn the context from Ezra & Haggai & Mat. 1;
we learn the blessings of obedience;
we see (Z3) how the high priest Joshua was transformed into our Gt High Priest, Jesus, & would remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
We even see Joshua as a Priest-King (Z6), which combined office was only held by Melchizedek who was a pre-incarnation appearance of Jesus.
We see many events in the life of Jesus specifically prophesied.

Then when we read Revelation we see the many allusions to Zechariah in that prophecy.

All that is before any argument about dispensations.

[Covenanter]

See my approach in Ezekiel 37 - the valley of dry bones

[Covenanter]

From an interpretational point of view, it can be unsound to jump to conclusions too quickly, right?

We need to ask sensible questions first before, in a fit of enthusiasm, we pull one verse from somewhere and make it apply to completely different situations.

I agree, but the need for interpretation must not be assumed - understanding comes first. Also for a proper understanding of Scripture, we should not approach it with a paradigm. (Covenant theology, dispensationalism, or any other "ism.")

[farouk]

I agree, but the need for interpretation must not be assumed - understanding comes first. Also for a proper understanding of Scripture, we should not approach it with a paradigm. (Covenant theology, dispensationalism, or any other "ism.")

Covenanter:

I find it hard to grasp that in order to avoid a presupposition such as that the church and Israel are distinct we must therefore assume that they are the same.

Scripture itself shows that they are rather different, in my view.

[Covenanter]

Covenanter:

I find it hard to grasp that in order to avoid a presupposition such as that the church and Israel are distinct we must therefore assume that they are the same.

Scripture itself shows that they are rather different, in my view.

Why did you make that comment, Farouk? I insist that we should understand Scripture before interpreting with ANY presuppositions. Obviously "the church" & "Israel" are different, but, just as you & I are different, the same promises of God are there to be claimed by faith, so that in Christ we are one.

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

I carefully framed my replies to your OP to avoid arguments of that nature.

[farouk]

Why did you make that comment, Farouk? I insist that we should understand Scripture before interpreting with ANY presuppositions. Obviously "the church" & "Israel" are different, but, just as you & I are different, the same promises of God are there to be claimed by faith, so that in Christ we are one.

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

I carefully framed my replies to your OP to avoid arguments of that nature.

Covenanter:

There is no such thing as an absence of assumptions.

But Scripture itself invites care in applying promises indiscriminately without looking at context.

[Covenanter]

There is no such thing as an absence of assumptions.
My main assumption is that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

But Scripture itself invites care in applying promises indiscriminately without looking at context.
There we agree - applying God's promises must by justified by the context & situation. I will neither hang myself, nor walk on water, nor declare healing to the sick.

[Deb2live4Christ]

One must remember we have the Author of the scriptures within us and as we rely upon the Holy Spirit, He infact will reveal the meaning to us as we are in need of HIS leading, guiding and teaching...1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

i.e. Peter's interpretation of Joel...
Acts 2:14-21 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

My question is how did Peter have confidence in his interpretation of the book of Joel...if it were today would we be questioning or doubting or would we believe what Peter pulled out of the Old Testament as illustration for that day?

We all need to depend on the Holy Spirit... remember too though that some scripture is not the matter of interpretation but for us, a matter of just plain obedience...

We too must remember that the natural man can not receive... 1 Corinthians 2:12-16 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Carnal Christians too according to this passage are fed the basics...1 Corinthians 3:1-23 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.


Has anyone ever heard of Rhema?

[Covenanter]

Thanks, Deb for your contribution.

One must remember we have the Author of the scriptures within us and as we rely upon the Holy Spirit, He infact will reveal the meaning to us as we are in need of HIS leading, guiding and teaching...
1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

That does not mean that we all have a spiritually correct understanding - there would be no disagreements about Scripture interpretation.

We must have a basic agreement on the being & saving work of Jesus, & a living & personal faith in him.

[farouk]

Deb2live4Christ:

Good and helpful verses, yes.

It is the Holy Spirit, who shall not speak of Himself, shall guide the Lord's people into all truth, as He testifies concerning the Lord Jesus, indeed.

Re, Joel, it seems that he was speaking about events relating to Israel yet to be fulfilled, because in the primary and immediate sense, the Old Testament doesn't speak of the church.

[Covenanter]

Re, Joel, it seems that he was speaking about events relating to Israel yet to be fulfilled, because in the primary and immediate sense, the Old Testament doesn't speak of the church.

Now THAT is imposing your assumptions on Peter's teaching in the power of the Holy Ghost.

Deb wrote:

... And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

My question is how did Peter have confidence in his interpretation of the book of Joel...if it were today would we be questioning or doubting or would we believe what Peter pulled out of the Old Testament as illustration for that day?

It wasn't Peter's interpretation, but he was speaking in the power of the Holy Ghost, with God-given wisdom.We must not impose our own assumptions to nullify the clear teaching of Scripture. The signs & wonders on heaven & earth are recorded as taking place at Calvary, & now, because of that, sinners can call on the name of Lord Jesus to be saved.

Why try to make that great and notable day of the Lord millennia away from Calvary & Pentecost? It was all happening then, & thousands of sinners believed the message & were saved.

As I said, in my reply to the OP:

We can only "interpret" Scripture after we have understood it:
in it's context of time & circumstances;
in relation to other Scriptures with a similar theme.

Having understood, we need to understand whether "interpretation" is necessary, or whether we can put the teaching into practice in our lives.

If interpretation is necessary, we should first consider what it teaches about Jesus, in relation to his earthly ministry, saving work, heavenly reign & return, & again, how that affects our lives.

Acts 2 makes perfect sense, & needs NO interpretation.

[farouk]

Covenanter:

Since you therefore seem to see the church in the Old Testament, we find communication hard, don't we?

Interpretation is a big issue.

Blessings. :)

[Deb2live4Christ]

Now THAT is imposing your assumptions on Peter's teaching in the power of the Holy Ghost.

Deb wrote:

It wasn't Peter's interpretation, but he was speaking in the power of the Holy Ghost, with God-given wisdom.We must not impose our own assumptions to nullify the clear teaching of Scripture. The signs & wonders on heaven & earth are recorded as taking place at Calvary, & now, because of that, sinners can call on the name of Lord Jesus to be saved.

Why try to make that great and notable day of the Lord millennia away from Calvary & Pentecost? It was all happening then, & thousands of sinners believed the message & were saved.

As I said, in my reply to the OP:


Acts 2 makes perfect sense, & needs NO interpretation.

EXACTLY>>>>"he was speaking in the power of the Holy Ghost, with God given wisdom" and so should we be! our mouths often open before the Holy Spirit fills it...me included!
1 Corinthians 2:1-5 "And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." I see a princilpe here expressing the importants speaking..1 Peter 4:10-11 "As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen..


He interpreted the times and what he saw happening and was given insight and wisdom from the Holy Spirit and therein being directed by the Holy Spirit to refer to the book of Joel
. Acts 2:14-21 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I did not clump all those verses together Luke did under the inspiration of God...I just quoted/wrote the complete thought so not to break up the passage...

[Deb2live4Christ]

How did you divide my quote up? I left a space designation a new reference and the italics and question was put together as one to make a point...how did you do that?