Equality with God, or Glory with God

[Allen]

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:16 -18 KJB:PCE

The Jews are saying Christ is NOT equal with God!

The Jews wanted to kill Christ because He said He was equal with God!

NASB - who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself

The NASB says the same thing that the Jews say in John 5.

DID NOT REGARD EQUALITY WITH GOD A THING TO BE GRASPED, BUT EMPTIED HIMSELF!

The words in that sentence says the He emptied Himself of equality with God!

That, of course, is impossible, He can not 'take off or stop being God, any more than you or I could take off, or stop being human!

The NASB is a filthy liar, but more important, the men who structured that sentence are filthy liars. Liars who think they have done a good thing for the Lord.
But they have done exactly as the Jews in John 5 did!

The issue is His GLORY, that is what He gave up, and that is what will be restored...

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Joh 17:4-5 KJB:PCE

Edited November 28, 2010 by Allen

[Annie]

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:16 -18 KJB:PCE

The Jews are saying Christ is NOT equal with God!

The Jews wanted to kill Christ because He said He was equal with God!

NASB - who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself

The NASB says the same thing that the Jews say in John 5.

DID NOT REGARD EQUALITY WITH GOD A THING TO BE GRASPED, BUT EMPTIED HIMSELF!

The words in that sentence says the He emptied Himself of equality with God!

That, of course, is impossible, He can not 'take off or stop being God, any more than you or I could take off, or stop being human!

The NASB is a filthy liar, but more important, the men who structured that sentence are filthy liars. Liars who think they have done a good thing for the Lord.
But they have done exactly as the Jews in John 5 did!

The issue is His GLORY, that is what He gave up, and that is what will be restored...

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Joh 17:4-5 KJB:PCE

Allen, could you explain your point a bit more clearly? Are you saying that the NASB (which actually parallels the KJV quite nicely in the Phil. 2 passage you mentioned) is erroneously saying that Christ emptied Himself of "equality with God"?

Phil. 2:6-7 (KJV): "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not rOBbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men."
Phil. 2:6-6 (NASB): "who, although he existed in the form of God" (so far, it's the very same), "did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped" (again, still the same...just another way of saying "thought it not rOBbery to be equal with God"), "but emptied himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men."

What is so different about these renderings? Both translations say the same thing: that Christ, who was equal with God without having to "grasp" or "rOB" that position, chose to humble Himself and become a man. As a man, He was indeed limited in more ways than just His glory...As a human, He was neither omniscient nor omnipresent. He had to learn to talk, to walk, to read, to become a carpenter. He had to lift heavy loads. He had to eat and sleep to keep His body healthy and alive. He experienced pain, fatigue, and sickness. If He had not placed Himself under these limitations and subjected Himself to the laws of the physical world, He would not have been human. He OBviously limited Himself by becoming a man; His power to do miracles during the three years of His ministry (as He said many times) was given to Him by His Father. Was He fully God, and therefore equal with God? Of course. But was He also fully man, and therefore equal with man? Again, yes. If He had not been fully man, He could not have paid sin's penalty for us. He humbled Himself....He "made Himself of no reputation"...He limited Himself...He "emptied" Himself...He made Himself nothing when He became a man. Both of the versions you have quoted express these truths.

I did a quick language study on both versions. Here are the results from Strong's:

First, the word harpagmos, which is the Greek word translated "rOBbery" in the KJV and "a thing to be grasped" in the NASB
harpagmos: 1. the act of seizing, rOBbery 2. a thing seized or to be seized, booty: to deem anything a prize--a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained

We see that both translations render the Greek appropriately; "rOBbing," "seizing," and "grasping" are all accurate translations of harpagmos.

Next, the word kenoo, which is the Greek word translated "made of no reputation" in the KJV and "emptied" in the NASB:
kenoo: 1. to empty, make empty 2. to make void, i.e. deprive of force, render vain, useless, of no effect 3. to make void, i.e. cause a thing to be seen to be empty, hollow, false

Again, we see that both translations render the Greek correctly, the NASB even more so than the KJV in this instance. The KJV sacrifices preciseness/exact wording for readability in this case. "Made himself of no reputation" in Elizabethan vernacular no doubt conveyed the correct message to its 17th century readers, even though the Greek word doesn't mean precisely "of no reputation." Christ emptied Himself; instead of appearing in the form of God, He appeared in the form of a human being, with all of its limitations.

The word "equal" is an interesting word that carries different connotations. Two entities can be equal in some ways, but not in others. Christ is (and was) equal with God in that He IS God (Christ = God). But, for the time that He was on earth, He was not equal in ALL ways with His Father. His Father, a spirit, was not limited by time, matter, and space, but Christ was, not because He "had" to be, but because He chose to be. In essence, in spirit, in eternal standing, He was equal with--He was one with--His Father. But, because He had chosen to limit Himself for a time, He could not have been equal in all ways with His Father. Both the KJV and the NASB translations of this verse accurately render this idea. Neither rendering contradicts any other Scripture. Edited November 28, 2010 by Annie