I grew up in churches that taught the 10% tithe as biblical for a believer, but it wasn't until my father wrote a dissertation on it for college and later let me read it, that I began to understand it wasn't the case.

The problems we face when pushing this view, is that A: too often if believers don't feel almost forced to give, they won't. B: Too often, many believe that teaching the tithe is not for believers today, that means we are teaching people NOT to give. When I began to teach this in my church, with the full of scripture behind me, immediately i was told "If people aren't taught to tithe, they won't give!" Sadly, that is borne out to be quite true. But I won't perpetuate something I find to be untrue, for the sake of getting people to give: if they cannot be a cheerful giver, and love the Lord and the wor enough to give freely, then I must place that into God's hands.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:41 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I grew up in churches that taught the 10% tithe as biblical for a believer, but it wasn't until my father wrote a dissertation on it for college and later let me read it, that I began to understand it wasn't the case.

The problems we face when pushing this view, is that A: too often if believers don't feel almost forced to give, they won't. B: Too often, many believe that teaching the tithe is not for believers today, that means we are teaching people NOT to give. When I began to teach this in my church, with the full of scripture behind me, immediately i was told "If people aren't taught to tithe, they won't give!" Sadly, that is borne out to be quite true. But I won't perpetuate something I find to be untrue, for the sake of getting people to give: if they cannot be a cheerful giver, and love the Lord and the wor enough to give freely, then I must place that into God's hands.

While it is true that many who were tithing might give less, as you say, the monetary tithe requirement doctrine is indeed a lie.  And we shouldn't perpetuate a lie just to garner finances.  A church that has to lie to it's congregation in order to get them to give may as well close its doors.  God is not in such a church.

God's church is built upon the truths both written and spoken by the Apostles and the Prophets; neither of which taught a required monetary tithe.

If monetary tithing were required in the Bible, I highly doubt that the Lord Jesus Christ would have allowed a thief (Judas) to be the Treasurer of his band of Disciples.  Yet, John 12:3-4 tells us that Judas was indeed the one that carried the purse. 



 

It seems to me that the OT and the NT have a similarity in proper giving, as the church(es) today are to practice it:

 In the OT, we have many examples, all the way back from the Israelites in the wilderness at Sinai, and through the time of the kings, that when there was a need to be met, usually having to do with the tabernacle/temple, a freewill offering was taken up. When the tabernacle was first being built, the call was put out to everyone to give as the were led to the needs to build the tabernacle. There was no specific requirement-they gave as much or as little as they chose. Later, we see a few times mentioned that when there were needed repairs for the temple, a box was put out and money was given, again, as a free will offering, to be used for the needs of rebuilding, or repairing of the temple. And people gave as they chose, as they saw the importance.

This seems to be the kind of giving that is given to the churches-we see that people gave as they were prospered, according to the importance they saw of the project. No amount was required, and in fact, no one was required TO give-they gave in amounts as they were able and as they loved he Lord: where their hearts were, that was where their treasure went. And since much of the giving today in a church is to the maintaining of the facilities, much like the temple, so the giving is freewill, as it was then.

If people are going to meet in a building, then certainly, finances will be needed for the maintenance of the building,... no doubt. 

Interestingly, all of the "giving" seen in the post-crucifixion texts clearly show the giving was for people who lacked, not for building maintenance.  Of course, in the first century A.D., there were no electric bills, telephone bills, et.al..

My stand, as far as utilities for the building are concerned is, when a bill comes in, tell the congregation how much the bill is.  Tell them to consider helping to meet the bill so that the amenities they are enjoying can continue.  Assure them that you do not mean to take away from what is needed for their own families, but that, if they have something they can contribute, it will be most appreciated.

Then, exercise faith that God will move in the hearts of His people.  Sometimes, I believe that the monetary tithe doctrine shows, and often results in, a lack of faith.  People don't have to trust God to move hearts if the know  that certain people are already dedicated to yielding to the lie.  That money is assured each month. 

It is then that the faith is seen in man,... not in God.

7 hours ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Then, exercise faith that God will move in the hearts of His people.  Sometimes, I believe that the monetary tithe doctrine shows, and often results in, a lack of faith.  People don't have to trust God to move hearts if the know  that certain people are already dedicated to yielding to the lie.  That money is assured each month. 

It is then that the faith is seen in man,... not in God.

I have held of commenting on any of this thread due to a show of patience, you already know the thoughts of many of those who disagree with you, Christian forbearance, and I have previously shown you an error in some of your passages.

And, every time you discuss tithing you belittle the pastor of every church, as do most internet theologians, and call them hypocrites, lovers of Mammon, and in this "devotion," you call them "handling the word of God deceitfully." In my opinion, this is not a devotion, nor a Bible study, but your own disgruntled method of trying to belittle those who tithe and give to the local church and the pastors of local independent,fundamental, Baptist churches.

Many saints tithe and give to the Lord Jesus due to a heart of love and faith. Like Abraham of old, before the Law, they love the work of the ministry of God, through the man of God, to take care of the ministry of God. Like Abraham, they give by faith. For you to say that those who tithe and give are not doing it by faith is in complete error, repugnant, and a slap in the face. Those who give to the cause of Christ, through the local church, are doing so by faith; they are not doing it as you say by faith in some man.

In our age, the ministry of God is handled through the local church. "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. " 1 Timothy 3:15 Instead of trying to have a ministry through the internet as an internet theologian, belittling pastors, and spreading your venom on OnLine Baptist, why not try to learn "...how thou oughtest to behave in the house of God..." and stick to your criticism of pastors and those who tithe through the local church on own forum on the internet instead of Online Baptist.

Actually, I do not "call" pastors "they handle the word of God deceitfully".  I bring a charge against them for handling the word of God deceitfully. 

And the word of God fully supports the charge I bring against them.

When I answered the call to preach in 1988, I answered the call to preach the word... not man's opinion.  The word of God reveals that those pastors' who use Malachi 3:8-10 or any other Old Testament Scripture or passage that describes tithing as "proof-text" that the saved in Christ today are required to tithe their monetary income in the New Covenant  Church, to be handling the word of God deceitfully.

Not once in the entire Bible is anyone told to tithe their monetary income to the House of God... not once.  And yet, so many pastors continue to deceive with their using Scripture out of context to teach the monetary tithe requirement that is totally foreign to the word of God.

Shame on pastors that deceitfully use passages that speak of an agricultural tithe required of the children of Israel to teach a monetary tithe of their congregations today.  They are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

And shame on pastors that defend the deceitful pastors.

2 hours ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Not once in the entire Bible is anyone told to tithe their monetary income to the House of God... not once.  And yet, so many pastors continue to deceive with their using Scripture out of context to teach the monetary tithe requirement that is totally foreign to the word of God. Have you not ever read 1 Corinthians 9:5-14?

Shame on pastors that deceitfully use passages that speak of an agricultural tithe required of the children of Israel to teach a monetary tithe of their congregations today.  They are not rightly dividing the word of truth. Shame of those false teachers who reject the ordinance of God.

And shame on pastors that defend the deceitful pastors. Shame on those false teachers who reject the ordinance of God.

1 Corinthians 9:5-14 says, “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? for it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it together for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”

The Apostle Paul quoted the Old Testament Law as his authority. “Thou shall not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.” Deuteronomy 25:4 The authority for the church receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the New Testament is a precept of Melchizedek and the Levites receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the Old Testament. “But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.” Deuteronomy 18:24

The Apostle Paul, and the other apostles, are examples of men in the ministry in the New Testament church. The apostles had the power, the authority, to receive, as the Levites in the Old Testament, the tithes and offerings to live on and take care of the ministry, and function, of the local New Testament Church, or the local assembly. In a reference to the bishop, or pastor, being the elder of the church, the Apostle Paul reiterated this ordinance in 1 Timothy 5:17, “Let the elders that rule well be counted double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”

Besides quoting the law in Deuteronomy 25:5 Paul the apostle quoted the Lord Jesus, “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” Luke 10:7 So, we not only have the precepts of the Old Testament on giving the tithes and offerings for the furtherance of the ministry of the church, but Paul used the words of the Lord Jesus, the founder of the church, as a second authority, in the giving of the tithes and offerings as the means of furthering the ministry of the church.

God has ordained that the ministry of the New Testament Church is maintained by the tithes and offerings of the saints as Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham, as Jacob gave tithes, and as the Levites received the tithes and the offerings of the worshipers in the temple in the Old Testament. The word “tithe,” means ten per cent. It can be ten percent of money, animals, grain, or any physical object.

Psalm 119:128, “Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.” The precept, not a command, of giving tithes and offerings is seen in the life of Abraham and Jacob before the law. Abraham willingly gave a tithe to Melchizedek. The tithe given to Melchizedek was a tithe and not a tax. Jacob, Genesis 28:20-22, willingly made a vow to tithe.

In the law of Moses the precept of giving tithes and offerings was given to the Jews for the service of the Temple by the Levites. In the New Testament church, the precept of giving tithes and offerings for the work of the ministry is an ordinance of God. The giving of the tithes and offerings by God's people, in any age, is a good and right precept. “I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.” Psalm 119:168

This ordinance is a direct command from God to the saints in the New Testament Church. And, this ordinance does not mean in any sense of the word that we are under the law, are to sacrifice animals, nor keep the other commandments of the ceremonial law. According to Hebrews 8:4-13, 9:1-23 and 10:1-11, the ordinances of the temple service and sacrifices are done away in the New Testament church. Therefore, since the New Testament saint is not to offer animal sacrifices, or grain, as an offering, as according to the law of Moses, money is the most common, and appropriate, means of tithing.

The precepts, or principals, of tithes and offerings are ordained by God Himself as the means that the carnal, or physical, work of the church is to be maintained as according to the Old Testament. As with the temple in the Old Testament, the carnal, or physical, work off the New Testament church includes: the financial offerings for the minister, the physical upkeep of any church building, the purchase of property for the physical building(s) of the church, missions, evangelism, tract ministries, and those ministries under the direct leadership of the pastor. This precept, or principle, is by the direct ordinance of God.

2 hours ago, Alan said:

 

1 Corinthians 9:5-14 says, “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? for it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it together for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”

 

The Apostle Paul quoted the Old Testament Law as his authority. “Thou shall not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.” Deuteronomy 25:4 The authority for the church receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the New Testament is a precept of Melchizedek and the Levites receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the Old Testament. “But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.” Deuteronomy 18:24

 

The Apostle Paul, and the other apostles, are examples of men in the ministry in the New Testament church. The apostles had the power, the authority, to receive, as the Levites in the Old Testament, the tithes and offerings to live on and take care of the ministry, and function, of the local New Testament Church, or the local assembly. In a reference to the bishop, or pastor, being the elder of the church, the Apostle Paul reiterated this ordinance in 1 Timothy 5:17, “Let the elders that rule well be counted double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”

 

Besides quoting the law in Deuteronomy 25:5 Paul the apostle quoted the Lord Jesus, “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” Luke 10:7 So, we not only have the precepts of the Old Testament on giving the tithes and offerings for the furtherance of the ministry of the church, but Paul used the words of the Lord Jesus, the founder of the church, as a second authority, in the giving of the tithes and offerings as the means of furthering the ministry of the church.

 

God has ordained that the ministry of the New Testament Church is maintained by the tithes and offerings of the saints as Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham, as Jacob gave tithes, and as the Levites received the tithes and the offerings of the worshipers in the temple in the Old Testament. The word “tithe,” means ten per cent. It can be ten percent of money, animals, grain, or any physical object.

 

Psalm 119:128, “Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.” The precept, not a command, of giving tithes and offerings is seen in the life of Abraham and Jacob before the law. Abraham willingly gave a tithe to Melchizedek. The tithe given to Melchizedek was a tithe and not a tax. Jacob, Genesis 28:20-22, willingly made a vow to tithe.

 

In the law of Moses the precept of giving tithes and offerings was given to the Jews for the service of the Temple by the Levites. In the New Testament church, the precept of giving tithes and offerings for the work of the ministry is an ordinance of God. The giving of the tithes and offerings by God's people, in any age, is a good and right precept. “I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.” Psalm 119:168

 

This ordinance is a direct command from God to the saints in the New Testament Church. And, this ordinance does not mean in any sense of the word that we are under the law, are to sacrifice animals, nor keep the other commandments of the ceremonial law. According to Hebrews 8:4-13, 9:1-23 and 10:1-11, the ordinances of the temple service and sacrifices are done away in the New Testament church. Therefore, since the New Testament saint is not to offer animal sacrifices, or grain, as an offering, as according to the law of Moses, money is the most common, and appropriate, means of tithing.

 

The precepts, or principals, of tithes and offerings are ordained by God Himself as the means that the carnal, or physical, work of the church is to be maintained as according to the Old Testament. As with the temple in the Old Testament, the carnal, or physical, work off the New Testament church includes: the financial offerings for the minister, the physical upkeep of any church building, the purchase of property for the physical building(s) of the church, missions, evangelism, tract ministries, and those ministries under the direct leadership of the pastor. This precept, or principle, is by the direct ordinance of God.

 

 

 

The context o 1 Corinthians 9 is the right of Apostles for food and lodging.  It's n't speaking of tithes.

But, for the sake of an argument, let's just suppose Paul was speaking of tithes.  He couldn't have been speaking of tithes of one's monetary income, for tithes of  monetary income weren't ever taught in any of the previous chapters of the Bible.

And Paul would have used the Greek "apodekato'o" had he been speaking of tithes. 

Jesus was not telling the Disciples to take tithes in Luke 10:7.  They were not Levites... they had no authority to receive tithes.

Using Luke 10:7 as proof-text that preachers are authorized to receive tithes is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

And again, there is not one verse in the entire Bible that says tithing of monetary income is required... either of ancient Israel... or of the New Covenant Church.



 

2 hours ago, Alan said:

 

1 Corinthians 9:5-14 says, “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? for it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it together for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”

 

The Apostle Paul quoted the Old Testament Law as his authority. “Thou shall not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.” Deuteronomy 25:4 The authority for the church receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the New Testament is a precept of Melchizedek and the Levites receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the Old Testament. “But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.” Deuteronomy 18:24

 

The Apostle Paul, and the other apostles, are examples of men in the ministry in the New Testament church. The apostles had the power, the authority, to receive, as the Levites in the Old Testament, the tithes and offerings to live on and take care of the ministry, and function, of the local New Testament Church, or the local assembly. In a reference to the bishop, or pastor, being the elder of the church, the Apostle Paul reiterated this ordinance in 1 Timothy 5:17, “Let the elders that rule well be counted double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”

 

Besides quoting the law in Deuteronomy 25:5 Paul the apostle quoted the Lord Jesus, “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” Luke 10:7 So, we not only have the precepts of the Old Testament on giving the tithes and offerings for the furtherance of the ministry of the church, but Paul used the words of the Lord Jesus, the founder of the church, as a second authority, in the giving of the tithes and offerings as the means of furthering the ministry of the church.

 

God has ordained that the ministry of the New Testament Church is maintained by the tithes and offerings of the saints as Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham, as Jacob gave tithes, and as the Levites received the tithes and the offerings of the worshipers in the temple in the Old Testament. The word “tithe,” means ten per cent. It can be ten percent of money, animals, grain, or any physical object.

 

Psalm 119:128, “Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.” The precept, not a command, of giving tithes and offerings is seen in the life of Abraham and Jacob before the law. Abraham willingly gave a tithe to Melchizedek. The tithe given to Melchizedek was a tithe and not a tax. Jacob, Genesis 28:20-22, willingly made a vow to tithe.

 

In the law of Moses the precept of giving tithes and offerings was given to the Jews for the service of the Temple by the Levites. In the New Testament church, the precept of giving tithes and offerings for the work of the ministry is an ordinance of God. The giving of the tithes and offerings by God's people, in any age, is a good and right precept. “I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.” Psalm 119:168

 

This ordinance is a direct command from God to the saints in the New Testament Church. And, this ordinance does not mean in any sense of the word that we are under the law, are to sacrifice animals, nor keep the other commandments of the ceremonial law. According to Hebrews 8:4-13, 9:1-23 and 10:1-11, the ordinances of the temple service and sacrifices are done away in the New Testament church. Therefore, since the New Testament saint is not to offer animal sacrifices, or grain, as an offering, as according to the law of Moses, money is the most common, and appropriate, means of tithing.

 

The precepts, or principals, of tithes and offerings are ordained by God Himself as the means that the carnal, or physical, work of the church is to be maintained as according to the Old Testament. As with the temple in the Old Testament, the carnal, or physical, work off the New Testament church includes: the financial offerings for the minister, the physical upkeep of any church building, the purchase of property for the physical building(s) of the church, missions, evangelism, tract ministries, and those ministries under the direct leadership of the pastor. This precept, or principle, is by the direct ordinance of God.

 

 

The above study stands by itself and needs to further comment.

1 Corinthians 9, when read in context, is speaking of support through food and lodging for Apostles.

Apostles were separated from the Church and sent to preach to a lost and dying world.  They deserved support for their missionary journeys.

Paul was not speaking of support through monetary income tithing.  Monetary income tithing was never a concept in the word of God.

Not once in the word of God is there a command, or instruction, for one to tithe one's monetary income in the word of God.  One has to add to the word of God to say 1 Corinthians 9 (or any other chapter in the Bible) is speaking of tithing one's monetary income to the House of God.
 

To insist that money was to be tithed is to make Jesus a transgressor of the Law., and his Him teaching others to transgress the Law

Matthew 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
Matthew 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Matthew 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Matthew 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Give the coin to the Roman Government instead of tithing it?  Yikes! 

Sorry, but money was not tithed.  Nor was "any increase that came into the hand."  God said His tithe was agricultural, and that it was to be eaten. 

 

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Imagine that!  Use money acquired from sales to purchase a sword instead of tithing.  My, my, my.