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John Young

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Everything posted by John Young

  1. This is the closet concise video I have seen, of shareable value, that has come close to explaining the error of Steven Anderson's version of Replacement theology with out totally distracting from the issues at hand. Though, I don't agree that he is a cult leader (any more than Ruckman, Hyles, Curtus Hutson, J. Frank Norris, or John R. Rice were anyway). One of the biggest downfalls of a lot of Anti-Anderson videos (Gipp, Grady, Sluder, this one, and etc.) is they spend far too much time putting down the man with half truths, insults, and ad hominems against anyone who would *DARE* listen to anything this "stupid cult leader and his minions" have to say, and they too easily accept any falsehood, spread by other false teachers, simply because they do not like the man. For me such talk just serves to distract from his actual errors in doctrine and justify the narrative that they are "suffering for Jesus" because they are "right" in their doctrine. I really have had no interest in defending Brother Anderson or this NIFB movement, but for some reason I always seem to be in one way or another because I really don't appreciate the lies and insults and accusations that have over saturated the real issues (by the people on both sides). Its really not a Christ like way to handle the issues we have with our Brothers across these doctrinal Isles. Additionally, when talking to those considering the NIFB movement or Brother Anderson I have to play defense for the intolerance of the people on our side, that have been caught up in believing the lies over actual truth, so I've have been thinking for a while now about refuting the actual doctrinal issues of the NIFB movement without actually attacking the men themselves, just so I have something to share that doesn't look like I'm a crazed Pharisee trying to stone poor Deacon Stephen.
  2. "Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David." Christ is called the "Son of David" by the Old Testament believers for a reason and often those recognizing Jesus as that Christ, when he ministered physically on earth, would call upon him for mercy. One of the main reasons for this was because of the teaching here in Psalm 89. God had given Israel King David and His Spiritual House as a picture of the one day true King "the Holy One of Israel" that would come, granting both Spiritual and Physical mercy through His Spiritual Tabernacle, the NT Church. Psalm 89 taught them that David's descendant would be the "Holy One of Israel" and that God's covenant with King David would mirror God's covenant with those who believed on Christ, the Son of God. In Part 3 of this 4 part message on Psalm 89 we show how God gave David and his house as a picture of His Spiritual Covenant of Mercy that was available for all to enter into by faith in Christ. We also show how, once received, this covenant could not be broken by later unfaithfulness by the receiver. Just as the covenant was secure with David and Christ, so it would be with all those who received it. Preached: February 13, 2019 Wednesday Night. By Pastor John Young, at Edgecliff Baptist Church, Spokane Valley, WA. (Please like, share, and subscribe to the channel for more Bible Sermons!) #SonOfDavid #TheHolyOne #HaveMercy #CallUponHisName #Psalm89
  3. Revelation 21:8 refers to those who feared to put their trust in God. It does not mean everyone who has a feeling of fear. Those who trust in God for all things will be given courage to follow him even in times they are afraid to do so. If we fear God more than man then we will not be afraid to put our trust and faith in God. Psalm 40:1-4 I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. 2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. 3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord. 4 Blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
  4. The bible uses fiction to convey meaning all the time. In particular with it's use of Parables. Fiction is not a problem but what is being conveyed is important to consider. Parable PAR'ABLE, noun [Latin parabilis.] Easily procured. [Not used.] PAR'ABLE, noun [Latin parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another.] A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judges 9:1; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Samuel 12:1; the parable of the ten virgins, Matthew 25:1. PAR'ABLE, verb transitive To represent by fiction or fable.
  5. A selection of all the "Goofs and booboos" of the modernist movement in the ongoing process of trying to find and fix the Goofs and booboos.... I'm sure the'll get them all eventually...
  6. Basically Baptist Doctrine is based on what you read in the bible alone as your authority for faith and Practice. Catholic doctrine is based on what the catholic church teaches for authority in faith and practice. Catholics believe that you must be part of their church and keep all their commandments to be saved. Baptist believe as the bible teaches, that salvation is given to anyone who puts their faith in Christ alone. This means baptist believe anyone can be saved regardless of what church they attend or not. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 3:21-30 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Romans 10:6-13 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
  7. In the afterlife, our spirit will matter more than genetics of our flesh. So while we are alive physical parents have a connection that matters but after the connection is in the Spirit. Basically there is God's Spirit and then created spirits. In the Spiritual world genetics do not matter but their spirit connection does. When God creates a human spirit it is not connected to a human family but God selects the human parents and uses their genetic makeup to form the body for the flesh of that human spirit. The human parents are assigned to care for and raise the child while it is physical but when it sheds it's physical flesh then it is the spirit connection that will actually matter to us. If their human spirit is "dead" and goes to hell then the baby's spirit will no longer have any connection to them but if both parent and child's spirit is "alive" then they will have a connection by the spirit. Spiritually, Families are not determined by the flesh but by what spirit you are of. For humans there are basically three spiritual families. Human, God, and Satan. The first, human, is what God created us as and we are meant to serve God. God and Satan are by spiritual adoption and makes us Sons of those families. A human spirit that disobeys God will "die" because it loses its connection to God, its source of life. A "dead" spirit then can be "adopted" into God's family to restore that connection. Once we are saved then our new family will be all that we care about as we will have no spiritual connection to the dead.
  8. I'm fine with fighting against false conversions and making sure a person's faith is squarely on Christ alone for salvation. Just not the maligning of real ministries, that present the actual gospel, under the guise of "easy believim" being the only reason for their salvations to membership ratio.
  9. I wasn't being snarky at all. I actually have great respect for Brother Cloud. However, his blanket cynicism in this matter of saving souls as if it is all because of this manufactured "Hyles effect" is over bearing and has been for some time. The fact is whither a ministry has only one or two salvations, or thousands, have only a few members or gain many, or bastion of spiritual growth and practice or have many canal young Christians or are on the legalistic side, God has placed them to minister in their own way with the people and opportunities they have. Some churches will major on salvation and get many saved but struggle in the matter of discipleship and member retention. Others may have strong discipleship and member retention but struggle to reach new people outside of the church with the gospel. Each particular situation of a church is unique and should be taken as such. To blatantly state that such "conversions" and low retention is because of "fake methods" does a great disservice to the souls saved through these ministries and of the people who have contributed very much hard work, sweat, tears, and prayers in order to make them work . I know that a few do employ false methods and fudge numbers and have "empty believisim" but a great majority do not and does a great disservice to the cause of Christ to causally say so only after a cursory observation. Simply put large or small numbers of salvations or gaining of members is not an actual sign of good or bad methods and each church should be considered on its own merits and service before God. Granted no church is perfect and will hurt people by imperfect methods but often it is not the fault of "the methods" but the people with wrong motivation. In regards to having only a few saved and added to the church after very hard work, I was not putting down such churches as that has been the experience of my three years of ministry here in Spokane using the same methods learnt in the bigger churches with thousands of salvations and 300 members (Lebanon, MO) and hundreds of salvations with thousands of members (Oklahoma City). In each location the same methods were employed and straightforward and honest but the results were different based on opportunities and circumstances and the spiritual receptiveness of the local locations. None of theses had to do with fake methods. Also Brother Cloud's spite for Brother Hyles and Brother Gray and other older men in the movement, but not in his camp, is no secret and he recently blamed them and other men for "ruining" the IFB movement by their "methods". Take a look at the following list in his article form just a few months ago for an example:"The History of How Evangelism Was Corrupted Among Independent Baptists", https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/the-history-of-how-evangelism-was-corrupted.php Again, I'm not a hater of Brother Cloud, and have defended him a number of times, but this critical direction and his hatred for "easy Believisim" and large soul winning efforts is growing to the point of blaming genuine ministries and good men of the faith. I understand that he wants to warn everyone against the dangers of false conversion methods and the rise of the "Emerging church" but in doing so he is also going to the other extreme, bordering on needing to clean up and stop sinning as proof of salvation, to the point of him (while he does not say so) pretty much endorsing a type of lordship/works faith salvation hybrid.
  10. We also need to put large salvation numbers into perspective. Its too easy to say "10,000 salvations/baptisms and you are only running 200?!!" There are many reasons a church can have many salvation and baptisms but few actually become members of that particular church. My home church in Lebanon, MO has run a "free Day away" Program since the 70's and has had over 60,000+ salvation yet has always had less than 300 members. Mainly because of the program they are able to reach 1/3 of those joining the Army by inviting them to the church for a Sunday after noon off of the base, a home cooked meal and a Sunday evening service with us. Other than giving each person saved a ten week correspondence course to help them grow, we never see them again after that Sunday. Many churches have been blessed with simulare ministries and opportunities with temporary workers passing through and and high turnover housing areas (truckers, migrant workers, military, vacationers, short term housing, apartments, etc) or even mission trips, small town or tribal canvasing, etc that put them in front of a lot of people who can and do get saved but never attend. Sadly many churches and Christians that do not see such opportunities begin to expect their one or two salvation a year from local residents who they have been working on for years to attend and become members to be the normal, so become critical, use "easy believism" as a cop out and put down of those ministries. Growing up I personally have seen the effort put into the "free day away" program and other such minisireis with high turnover and can say they are not fake presentations or confessions. Yet have seen them mocked and ridiculed even by causal members of the same church who never actually got involved or simply had to thin a skin for such ministries. As for the term "easy believisim" I don't much care for the term because true salvation is easy and can be received easily. I like the distinction Brother James Melton uses now to distinguish false "easy believisim" with a true salvation that was simply given and received. He calls it "empty believisim" when a person thinks they were saved but put their faith in something other than Faith in Christ for payment of their sin.
  11. Personally I think the reach of these men in winning many souls to Christ and getting them plugged in to church was extremely great and should be commended rather than condemned. The fact that it mentions a church of over 200 in California and Brother Matt mentioning the many in Main and the fact that Bob Grey is in the south shows how great a mater it was that influence conversions around the country. With the great influx of Souls saved and plunged into their church ministries before they gained "perfection" is a good problem to have. The problem with Brother Cloud is that is very critical of newly saved Christians in ministry and wants "perfect people doing perfect ministry" to the point of doubting the person's conversion or the soulwinnwer's sincerity because they don't meet his outward criteria of waht a "true convert" should be. Yet if we did it Brother Cloud's "way" then we would have many bench warmers "learning to be saved" and then after they can figure that out then they would then have to "learn to be good Christians" and no actual soul winning or actual ministering before "perfection". Will there be hurt people along the way buy carnal but ministering imperfect Christians? sure there will. Just as anything done in great numbers. Discipleship and unity takes time but people don't have to be perfect Christians before to doing basic ministry of the great commission. I think Brother Cloud is out to lunch on this one.
  12. The pervert is married with children and still took him less than a year in his role to start manipulating children. Sick. Romans 3:18 there is no fear of God before their eyes.
  13. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Matthew 25:14-30 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. 15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. 16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. 17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. 18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. 20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. 21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. 23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 and I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. 26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: 27 thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. 28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. 29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
  14. Chips are not mentioned in Revelation. They are just a form of technology. A lot of "revelation teachers" (who are really conspiracy sensationalist) like to equate tracking software for the "Mark of the Beast". The mark of the beast will most likely be a form of human tracking and transaction technology but its placement in scripture is after the Abomination of desolation and is in response to the "Lord's Mark" given to the 144,000. Basically, in the tribulation and after the rapture, before you can receive it you must swear allegiance to the Anti-Chrsit under full knowledge that it is in opposition to the Lord's mark of that time. It is also made clear that those who receive were never saved. Therefore, if you are saved now, by full trusting on Christ alone for your redemption, then you have no ability to ever take that mark. Revelation 13:5-8 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Ezekiel 9:4 and the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
  15. Chips contain the same information as a magnetic or barcode strip. The only thing that really changes is the capacity to read the card wireless and an upgraded security procedures. If you already have a card then they already have your information but can now check your identity without asking for your card. If this concerns you then companies sell RIFD blocking wallets to prevent them from being read unless you specifically give it to an authorized person.
  16. The less the bible talks about something the more people seem to get worked up about it....
  17. In deference of the old commentators, lets not forget that while many were saved, spirit filled believers and desired to comment as the Holy Ghost led. Yet, they were still a product of their time and influenced greatly by the both good theology (honest bible study of fellow brethren) and the dregs of bad theology (catholic false doctrines and various popular philosophy and traditions of men, etc) to which they had hoped to escape but were still influenced by. Much of the purity we have come to expect in our doctrine, they were still trying to refine, and I'm sure as we continue to rid ourselves of false theology, and if the Lord tarries, our future generations many look on us with similar eyes.
  18. Doctrinally Psalm 89 holds all the key facets of our faith in regards to understanding how we are eternally saved from wickedness, sin, and death. Its placement in the collection of Psalms is like a crescendo, as the last chapter in the stormy waters and fears of this evil world, dealt with in book three, so that we can ease into the calm sheltering protection and security in God, dealt with in book four. The goal of Psalm 89 is to instill confidence in our eventual salvation, even when, outwardly, everything seems opposed to it. In the first of our four sermons in Psalm 89 we are introduced to God's Mercy for all that is being built in heaven so that all who enter in by faith can one day stand before God without suffering his wrath. We are shown that this over arching plan of God had its start before time and will have its completion at the end of time , just before the final Judgement. We are shown its eternal significance and God's ability and power to conquer the forces opposed to it. We are also shown that all the events of history (even the bad events) are being used to bring as many are willing into it. A key component of God's historic plan that we deal with in this sermon is "David's Spiritual House" (David's Tabernacle) which will be for all people that God will build through a descendant of David (2 Samuel 7). In this we see how David's house is not the nation of Israel but belongs to a separate promise under a separate covenant than Israel. We also take special note of the Psalmist's name and meaning, Ethan the Ezrahite, as it relates to this psalm as well. Preached: January 30, 2019 Wednesday Night. By Pastor John Young, at Edgecliff Baptist Church, Spokane Valley, WA. https://www.facebook.com/EdgecliffCBC (Please like, share, and subscribe to the channel for more Bible Sermons!) #HouseOfMercy #CovenantOfMercy #AllMayCome #EnterIn #Psalm89 #2Samuel7
  19. I'm not a Baptist brider but I am a New Jerusalem bride birther, by virtue of salvation, who happens to be a baptist in doctrine. Psalm 87:5-6 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. 6 The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah. Revelation 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. Revelation 21:9-14 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 on the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  20. First a Christian should not care about skin pigmentation, Secondly the false "Pigmentation" doctrine of Ham (some use Cain's mark) was developed by people influenced by evolutionary thinking, who desired show why the "negro race" was inferior and deserved to be subjugated. (This thinking believed in four to seven human races that did not have common ancestors and developed separately over time and their white race being the most human with the pure white Aryan Race least tainted by the others and therefor better more evolved.). Third it is predicating the myth that it is a curse to be negro, which it is not. Personally I don't think we need to entertain the curse of pigmentation or race "question" as if it had any actual merit in scripture other than to say that proponents of it certainly did not get it from the bible. As for the science to why people are darker than others, that is generally explained by a working of particular genes in the body over generations and what genes were available in the pool of people who would marry with one another. If you and your group have the genes that give you darker skin and there is no one around who has genes that regulate to a lighter tone, you simply will not get lighter. This can be easily seen by the children of black and white people who marry is their children will often be a middle tone with some lighter and darker. The Australians also had a program in the older days where they were breading the "black out" of the local aborigines, attempting to turn them in to white people, by paring up lighter Aborigines with the darker ones. The Body also has a particular way of adapting to its environment and while "black" is often associated with the "negro race" or Africans many Asians Indians, Polynesians, Chinese , american Indian ect, have just as dark skin but are not associated with the "negro" genetically nor in biblical decent.
  21. Yes, as Christians in the family of God we should not regard these divisions as reasons to be separated from each other. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Philippians 1:27-28 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; 28 and in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
  22. Yes we are all of one blood (Acts 17:26) and descend from Noah but Noah had three sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Gentiles are the general term for Japheth's children (Genesis 10:1-5). At the time of Christ Japheth's children (Roman's rule and Greek's culture) had rule over Shem's and Cannon's (a son of ham) children, fulfilling the prophesy of Genesis 9:27. The Jewish people were the Old Testament Believers, who at the time of Christ, claimed the promises of of God given to Abraham and lived after the covenant of Israel. They called themselves Jews, after the tribe of Judea (one of the tribes of Israel) because after Israel was dispersed in the "Diaspora" (Assyrian and Babylonian dispersion of Israel's tribes), and 70 year after their dispersion (Jeremiah 25:11, 29:10-12), the leaders of Judea's tribe, with some of Levi and Benjamin, were given permission by the Persians to go back and set up the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Ezra 1:1-5). Later, in rebellion against the Greeks/Syrians, they were able to gain independence again, and made the Judean (Jewish) state of Israel, for a short time before coming under the "protection" of Rome. This occupying protection, which they at first saw as an alliance became seen as an occupation. Slowly they saw their Jewish authority being influenced and taken over by the Romans and their Jewish culture influence and taken over by Greek culture (Hellenization). This is why the Jews refereed to all non-Jews as Gentiles because if you did not follow the God of the Jews and their Jewish traditions at the time of Christ then you would be considered a "follower of the Gentile's authority and culture", and therefor a "Gentile", regardless of which son of Noah you were from.
  23. Both of you are all take an no give in this conversation. Despite the fact that the rest of us were forthcoming you insist on answers from us while giving none of your own. Conversations don't work that way. Tell us about yourself. Introduce yourselves and maybe we'll talk more about it and our individual church policies. As it stands the only reason you both joined was to interrogate those on the forum about this hack job of a "report" and you really have no interest in being productive members here.

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