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John Young

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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  1. Part 2... Take note of these verses from Acts 15: Acst 15:1-2 And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. [This was the mark of entering the National covenant, they were saying that they had to enter the national covenant before they could be saved by Christ] 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [they believed without entering in to the national covenant] 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? [the Israel of old and the Jews of the day could not keep the national covenant as God demanded in order for the nation to be properly established] 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. [meaning that even though the Israelite and Jews could not keep the national covenant they were still saved the same way as the gentiles]12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, [the old testament version of the church, which was a covenant for all nations, Isaiah 56] which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [A quote from Amos 9 which also makes clear the that the nation will be destroyed and Jacob will be scattered while the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt and then later that Jacob will return to reestablish the Nation of Israel] 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 but that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. [Meaning while christian Jews should not try to make gentiles convert, the Christian gentiles needed to make these concessions so that the Jews could keep their National covenant in good conscience and not be defiled when the gentiles meet with them in services.] Part 3.... Acts 21:18-28 goes on to teach this: 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe [Paul and James celibrate souls saved by faith in their ministries]; and they are all zealous of the law: [the issues then becomes about the national covenant of Israel] 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. [A lot of people think that Paul is teaching to Jews to forsake the National Covenant but both Paul, James, and the other Apostles agree that this is NOT what Paul is teaching for the JEWS. Rather he teaches the National covenant e has nothing to do with one's salvation and that Gentiles should not try to keep it as part of their salvation or sanctification before God (just as Peter stated in acts 15:10)] 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. [Paul has always been an observant jew who kept the National covenant and James and Paul want to show this to the Jerusalem church] 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.[They were giving the offering of the Nazorite to bless their nation]27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. In his defense Paul states clearly that he believes this physical nation to still be the Nation of Israel as seen in these verses: Acts 24:10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: Acts 24:17 Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings. Acts 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; Acts 28:19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Cæsar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
  2. The nation of Israel was established by the National Covenant at Mt. Sinai. It is not synonymous with the Old and New Testament Covenants which started with the first and second Adams and has different requirements to be part of then the testaments. The early church made this distinction clear in Acts 15 and Acts 21 that entering the National Covenant of Israel was not a requirement for the gentiles nor was it the same covenant that you receive when you are saved by God. It was however still a covenant in effect for Jews who wished to identify with the nation of Israel. To say otherwise is to contradict the Apostles and fundamentally misunderstand what Paul is teaching in regard to Being "Jewish". Salvation, as Peter stated in Acts 15:11 is the same for all people: But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. James also makes clear in Acts 15:17-18 that of all people, including gentiles of old. that are called by his name who are saved and will be saved: 17 that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Paul is in agreement with this as well when he states that all people of every age is saved the same way, by calling on the name of the lord: Romans 10:11-13 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. While they all believe and taught that Salvation was the same for all people they rejected the idea that the National Israelite Covenant was for all people, that it was required for salvation, or that it was for all saved believers. They taught that the Household of Faith and the Israelite Nation were different and were entered differently. They did not teach that the National covenant suddenly became a spiritual national covenant for all believers. Rather they taught the spiritual household of faith for all believers in the Old Testament was "David's Tabernacle" and in the New Testament was rebuilt by Christ into what is now the Spiritual Body of Christ. What Paul teaches is that a Jew (someone in the national covenant of Israel) is nothing without Salvation. He is not teaching that saved gentiles are now the true Jew. Rather , he is teaching a Saved Jew is a true Jew.
  3. Have you checked directly with Ruckman's church book store and college? If anyone would have that information or how to get it, it would be them. http://store.kjv1611.org/
  4. "The Rapture" (Part one: A word about "the rapture". Part two: What is the rapture, Where do the Major Christian Frameworks place the rapture and why.) Part one: A word about "the Rapture". As we study The four returns of Christ as outlined, we are going to intentionally not speak too much about the rapture directly nor make it the primary focus, as Revelation is not about the Rapture, nor is specifically stated as an event in the book of Revelation. The Rapture and its order in the events is actually spoken of more by apostle Paul than by anyone else and that only briefly with the intent to give peace of mind to church age believers. The timing of Paul's church rapture in many theologies are then overlaid on to passages such as Matthew 24, and the book of Revelation. Not based on the contextual method of study but rather on incomplete similarities and theological assumptions of what constitutes a rapture and to whom it actually applies. Because the word "rapture" does not appear in English scripture (Its the Latin word for "Catching away" something, as in reference to a Kidnapping or theft, or as in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "caught up" together). The Timing and Placement of the rapture in various rapture theories therefor is heavily dependent on other terminology that they associate with happening with or as being the rapture itself, such as The call of "Apostle john to heaven", "The falling away", "The ascension of the two witnesses" "The return of Christ after the tribulation", "The reaping of earth by the angels", "The gathering of Israel/ or the elect", "The resurrection", and etc. Depending on their assumed associations of the given theology "the Rapture" will be placed in any one of these assumed locations with little more proof given than stating "this is also that". Another tactic that is often done in rapture theologies is the rearrangement of the Book of Revelation to suit their given preference. Sometimes the Book is broken into two, three, or even four or more, sections and then placed in a parallel timeline or mixed and matched arrangement of chapters in order to get the preferred result. Otherwise the natural chronological and progressive flow of the book becomes inconsistent with their rapture placement and other theology assertions. Given the diversity and variant opinions, and assumptions on the rapture, and the tampering of the book's natural flow and manipulation of terms, (Not just among heretics, or "Christians" in general, but also among otherwise good fundamental Baptist) the question needs to be asked, Why would otherwise contextually consistent Christians chose one view over the other? and additionally divide over the issue? To the simple it seems a frivolous thing to divide over a few years or on something "no one can agree on or prove definitively and we have no control over anyway". However, as with most theology, what is on the surface to the simple, as non issue, or matter of preference, is actually a defining issue. Where you place the rapture will ultimately determine which theology as a whole you will allow to teach you the Bible. In general Rapture theologies do not exist in a vacuum but are the end result of an overall Biblical framework and understanding the reasoning behind them belongs to them of full age (That is why Revelation is the last book in the Bible!). Unfortunately because of the emotional and sensational nature of end times events in general, and OUR rapture most specifically, it is most often one of the very first things a young and unlearned Christian wants to learn or is concerned about. (given a show of hands most of us would have to agree this was true for us as well). Because of this were we emotionally lock in our placement will determine what we decide is theologically correct in our later development and study. There are also many who were told a location but later changed their position after "much study" (usually meaning a charismatic and skilled teacher picked apart a flawed version of their told placement in favor of the teachers preferred placement) but do not change their previous framework. Given time the framework must change with the rapture theology in order for the person to remain theologically consistent. So if "the timing of the rapture" is the only thing "we disagree on"...give it time and the rest will also change. Either that or the person is not an honest biblicist and is fine with picking and choosing theology with no theological constancy or is choosing to remain ignorant, simple, or detached from study, in favor of his chosen crowd of fellow Christians. So what does this all have to do with "The Four Returns of Christ" as outlined? Simply put, the major Frameworks in Christianity place the Rapture at one of these key points in the Return of Christ and confuse the simple to where they feel that they cannot understand the overall events and timings and therefor need a chart or skilled teacher to untangle the book of Revelation. It is the hope of this study to untangle the book of Revelation from artificial frameworks in favor of the bible's natural and consistent contextual flow. In so doing I hope to show, among other things, the simple flow of the book and events do not need to be rearranged, that the Rapture's correct placement is Pre-tribulational, and that the correct framework is dispensational in nature (in a later study I would like to look at the various errors within the certain dispensational views that cause many to forsake the truths of its basic bible principles for another framework. However that study will probably be a while off.) and lastly to show and teach the events in a way that can be grasped by the simple christian so that they can start off on a good theological footing. In part two we will look at the assertions of what the rapture is biblicaly, the reason for it, and according to the various frameworks, the Rapture placements and their fixed associations with their given theological Framework and why one must follow the other in order to be theologically consistent. Until then is their any clarification or additions that anyone would like to ask or add that would be helpful to the study so far?
  5. Is that stuff were they take all the rotten veg covered in mites and grind it all up? we call that compost here.
  6. The first Adam was Spiritually Safe because he was innocent and righteousness on his own merit before God and then was lost because he fell from his own innocents. This means he could no longer stand before God in his own grace. When we as children lose our innocents we then can no longer stand righteous before God and must submit to another's righteousness. Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. The second Adam still stands in his own righteousness and we who are saved from our fall stand with him in his righteousness and not our own. Jude 24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
  7. Such sudden change is probably the result of not being grounded in their professed doctrines in the first place. So when they were confronted with the Post trib view they were not able to explain the verses used in light of their professed theology. Rapture theology is considered an "end-result" theology. Which means it is built on the theology that comes before it and those who learn it don't realize its foundation doctrines so don't convert to the other theologies all at once. Don't be surprised if they come out in a year or two as believing the Church replaces Israel as a nation and that God has given up on Israel as a nation and other views. Their new Post-Trib view, and the teachings of the one they learned it from will eventually change their foundational dispensational views will slowly change to conform to Reformed covenant theology.
  8. If you could "lose" or CHOSE TO LEAVE eternal Salvation then an all knowing God would have never given it to you in the first place. Ephesians 1:4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
  9. Just remember Post-Trib rapture comes from the Reformed Covenant theology that says Israel and the church is the continuation of the same national covenant. (They believe God switched from the physical nation in the OT to a spiritual nation in the NT, and that the physical no longer has rights to the convent). This means that when Christ returns to gather the elect "after the tribulation" they believe this means the rapture of the church and not the regathering of Israel. They believe "elect" is referring to the church believers and the rapture. So every thing referring Christ returning with the angels is to "rapture the church" and then deposit OT saved Israelites from heaven back to Israel. They believe The return of Christ is the gathering of the elect is the same as the Rapture of the church and the 144,000 come from heaven to earth. Pre-trib rapture comes form Dispensation theology which states the church and Israel are separate covenants and both continue into the NT. They believe The Rapture of the church, the return of Christ, and the regathering of Israel are all separate events. The believe the return of Christ with the angels "after the tribulation" to gather the elect means to gather the 144,000 Israelite to Jerusalem. The Rapture of the church however occurs by the Spirit leaving earth before "Jacob's trouble" (Israel's tribulation week).
  10. "President Trump Participates in the Announcement of the Guidance on Constitutional Prayer in Public Schools"
  11. That seems to be the Method of Operation for the Golobal warming politicians. To forbid safe Harvesting/burning/clearing/grazing and then blame Global warming when the overgrowth dies/dries and catches fire.
  12. So technically we do vote for pastors in our Political elections!
  13. "Aside from Sunday morning services....." In regard to the tittle, if the question is to which service time would be most "required" or commanded, then Sunday Evening service would be more biblical than Sunday morning, as it fulfills the request of Paul and its the only service time Jesus attended after his resurrection. However in regard to requirements, Christians aren't required to to do anything they don't want to. What they SHOULD do is a different matter.
  14. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
  15. Glad to hear about your first sunday. I'm looking forward to hearing more future updates about the church and your ministry there.
  16. Amen. I was saved at a similar age as well but not baptized until 16. At five I had no doubt that Jesus Died for me and would take me to Heaven if I trusted in him. I would even witness to others about What Christ did and their need to trust in Christ. It was only the doubt of others that could not believe such a young child could have genuine faith that caused me to struggle and doubt my salvation.
  17. Hell is an English word, Sheol is an Hebrew word, and Hades and Tartarus are Greek words. It would not be wrong to translate them from the native language to the English equivalent. Many modernist try to uses the foreign words as a way to teach concepts not actually used in the Bible but the pagan cultures the word came from. Sometimes they are used spimply to convey particular aspects of Hell but it can run the risk of adding the pagan ideas of hell that the bible does not actually teach.
  18. Is that the one in Rosalia, Wa? I know it well and have been praying that they would get a pastor. I'll be praying for your church and that the lord will bless your work there.
  19. We had originally wanted to start a church out of a house a few years ago but we lived with relatives and could not afford a house in the area we were called to at the time. So we rented a small 250 SQ office space with our tithe and then started soul winning and inviting. From there as we grew, we would move to larger offices in the same building. Starting in an office was a blessing because we could expand our space without constantly moving and changing the church information and only paying for the space we needed. Two years into it we made a quick video for our sending church's missions conference. Unfortunately we ended up having to move back to Michigan but God was able to open up for our congregation to merge with another church in town that needed help and we were able to help them start a soul winning program with our former members. It was also worked out so that we did not have to worry about the church property that we had in the offices because the office owner was contacted by an other Baptist group that wanted to start a church in the same location after our contract was up and they ended up being able to use it all to start a new church in the same space.
  20. I suppose in regards to the Christian, towards other men, fear is on the part of the servant who has not been perfected by love. We see fear from young Christians towards Paul and Timothy when they had to be corrected and also when the servant was instructed by the Apostles to fear their master or men the government in general. However I do not see fear of any man as being a good attribute in scripture. For the perfected Christian, who is not motivated by fear of man but rather only of God. Some verses that come to mind would be... Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. 2 Corinthians 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him. Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: 1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. 1 John 4:17-18 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
  21. Due to the health of our current pastor we are in the process of looking for a Fundamental Baptist, KJV using, Man, willing and able to help lead and grow the church. The church currently has six faithful tithing members with average of 10-15 each week. The church is paid for, well maintained, and all bills are being paid with a savings account and healthy budget but is not yet able to provide a salary, so the man will need to be self supported. (we are working towards a Pastor's salary and supporting missionaries but need more tithing members). Church can remodel a few rooms and restroom into a parsonage if needed. It is a country church but Portage, Kalamazoo, and several smaller towns are nearby within a half hour drive. You can contact us on our Facebook Page here: https://www.facebook.com/Maranatha-Bible-Baptist-Church-of-Fulton-MI-852512551792430/
  22. You said enough in the first sentence for me to know not to waste my time replying, except to say its clear from your replies that you already have enough information to make a decision one way or another. You just need to make it. 1 Kings 18:21a And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him:...
  23. Sentences within a paragraph carry on the same thought. New Paragraphs carry on a related but new thought. 1st paragraph is about Bishops being a reflection of Christ and that their infidelity or loyalty towards Christ and how that carries over to their own wives. Second is about the "Abandonment" argument being a sign of a hard heart and a reason many lack power. The third is my general opinion that GENERAL disregard for the qualification (not just divorce) is the reason our churches lack the power of God. The qualifications for the OFFICE are there for a reason and all I am saying is that churches should strive to get and hold men to the Highest standard of those qualifications that they can for the sanctity of the OFFICE and not make excuses for getting minimally and questionably qualified men for the OFFICE. To make this about us "not forgiving men" or about "how well" God used men in other capacities who were not qualified for this office, is wrong, and are false arguments.
  24. I heard the first are actually going to be last so does that mean the one who started this thread is the real winner? lol

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