Spending the night over

[ptwild]

pt - I never said you were judged by sins you'd commit in the future. THE BIBLE says that a wise man discerns that evil could happen and avoids it. As far as people and their assumptions, the BIBLE also says that we look on the outward - man does. Yes, the heart is vital and only God knows the heart...but our spiritual condition is seen in our lifestyle. We do not belong to ourselves - when we get saved, our bodies become God's...many of us don't remember that, nor do we care because, hey, I can do what I want regardless of what anyone thinks. And if someone thinks something bad, it's THEIR fault. Wrong.

As far as the night my Saviour was born, his wedded parents were together. Matthew 1:19 clearly calls Joseph Mary's husband, while verse 20 calls Mary Joseph's wife. Unconsummated, but still wed. That is why Joseph was considering putting her away privily - putting her away in divorce.

pt, I never said anything about hotel rooms. A hotel is not the same as a house. And you cannot stretch it to be so.

Again, the Bible says, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall." When a person believes they are strong enough to avoid sin, they become arrogant...and that leads to destruction.

Happy: I am aware that the Bible instructs us to ascertain a person's spirituality based on their outward appearance/actions. This does not however mean that a person is right in judging another based solely on what he or she assumes. For example: Let's say I go to my g/f's apartment late one evening. On of her neighbors sees me enter the apartment building, goes to bed, then sees me leave the next morning. She assumes that I spend the night there and is indoctrinated to believe that any two people that spend the night with one another must have had sex, without exception. However, the fact is that not only did we not have sex, but that I left the apartment shortly after the neighbor went to sleep, then returned early the next morning to fix a leaking shower. Do you see the mistake the neighbor is making? And it is the same mistake whether I went somewhere else and slept in a different bed, or actually spent the night there with my g/f. Her mistake is her assumption, for she doesn't know what happened one way or the other. If she takes that assumption and judges me, then she is the one that sins, while I have done nothing other than, at the most, something a "wise man" should not do.

[ptwild]

pt - I never said you were judged by sins you'd commit in the future. THE BIBLE says that a wise man discerns that evil could happen and avoids it. As far as people and their assumptions, the BIBLE also says that we look on the outward - man does. Yes, the heart is vital and only God knows the heart...but our spiritual condition is seen in our lifestyle. We do not belong to ourselves - when we get saved, our bodies become God's...many of us don't remember that, nor do we care because, hey, I can do what I want regardless of what anyone thinks. And if someone thinks something bad, it's THEIR fault. Wrong.

As far as the night my Saviour was born, his wedded parents were together. Matthew 1:19 clearly calls Joseph Mary's husband, while verse 20 calls Mary Joseph's wife. Unconsummated, but still wed. That is why Joseph was considering putting her away privily - putting her away in divorce.

pt, I never said anything about hotel rooms. A hotel is not the same as a house. And you cannot stretch it to be so.

Again, the Bible says, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall." When a person believes they are strong enough to avoid sin, they become arrogant...and that leads to destruction.

I don't have to stretch it. It's the natural flowing conclusion to the standard you are advocating. If a person witnesses two unmarried people enter a hotel one evening with one another and then witnesses them leaving together with one another the next morning, how is he/sh to know whether or not they stayed in seperate rooms or not? And how are the two people to know what this witness will assume. Based on your standard, it would be better for the two not to stay in the same hotel so as to prevent the witness from drawing such a conclusion.

[HappyChristian]

I don't have to stretch it. It's the natural flowing conclusion to the standard you are advocating. If a person witnesses two unmarried people enter a hotel one evening with one another and then witnesses them leaving together with one another the next morning, how is he/sh to know whether or not they stayed in seperate rooms or not? And how are the two people to know what this witness will assume. Based on your standard, it would be better for the two not to stay in the same hotel so as to prevent the witness from drawing such a conclusion.

Based on MY standard? No - try the Bible, pt. I just cannot believe that you don't realize that the Bible is full of verses that teach us to walk wisely in this world. In your previous post, you didn't say anything about them arriving together and leaving together. It wouldn't be sin, but it would be stupid - and it wouldn't be walking wisely.

[ptwild]

Based on MY standard? No - try the Bible, pt. I just cannot believe that you don't realize that the Bible is full of verses that teach us to walk wisely in this world. In your previous post, you didn't say anything about them arriving together and leaving together. It wouldn't be sin, but it would be stupid - and it wouldn't be walking wisely.

I can accept "stupid" and "wouldn't be walking wisely." Although I do disagree. I have enough on my own plate to being worrying about the misjudgments and assinine assumptions of ignorant observers who, in turn, I'm sure have their own troubles to deal with. I spend a great deal of my life in hotels, its just the nature of my business. Sometimes I travel with a large staff that often includes a secretary and a couple of paralegals, all of whom are female. We travel together, so that means we arrive at the hotel together and we leave together. Never once have we stayed in the same hotel room. If some stranger that doesn't know me from Adam wants to make an ignorant assumption about me personally, based solely on a single observence of me entering and and leaving a hotel with certain company, then I'll be praying for his hardened judgmental soul, even though I don't know who he is or whether or not he exists.

[HappyChristian]

I can accept "stupid" and "wouldn't be walking wisely." Although I do disagree. I have enough on my own plate to being worrying about the misjudgments and assinine assumptions of ignorant observers who, in turn, I'm sure have their own troubles to deal with. I spend a great deal of my life in hotels, its just the nature of my business. Sometimes I travel with a large staff that often includes a secretary and a couple of paralegals, all of whom are female. We travel together, so that means we arrive at the hotel together and we leave together. Never once have we stayed in the same hotel room. If some stranger that doesn't know me from Adam wants to make an ignorant assumption about me personally, based solely on a single observence of me entering and and leaving a hotel with certain company, then I'll be praying for his hardened judgmental soul, even though I don't know who he is or whether or not he exists.

Chances are reeeeaaalll good that if no-one who knows you even notices you as you're going into a hotel, no-one's going to think anything. (besides - you were talking about one man and one woman...and then changed to a group - that's a bit different...)

But...if a person has neighbors who knows that person claims to be a Christian and that person has their b/f or g/f over for the night - that could cause testimony problems...I sure wouldn't want that on my conscience.

[ptwild]

Chances are reeeeaaalll good that if no-one who knows you even notices you as you're going into a hotel, no-one's going to think anything.

But...if a person has neighbors who knows that person claims to be a Christian and that person has their b/f or g/f over for the night - that could cause testimony problems...I sure wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Lot's of "ifs" and "coulds" in there, don't you think? If our hypothetical neighbor knows enough about my g/f to know she claims to be a Christian, then she knows our current situation and understands. If she doesn't understand, it's her own judgmental fault. In the end, I'm only concerned about what one person thinks about me and I've already got Him covered. I'll pray for those that unjustly judge me. What I do may be unwise, but what they do is a sin which scripture directly addresses.

[SouthernGal]

[HappyChristian]

Some of this discussion is generational.....standards are so relaxed now that sometimes there just aren't any standards. I'm afraid that with Christians in today's world, "some" want to know just how much I can do & it be o.k. (It's not about how can I bring glory to Christ). Isn't that what started this particular question on this thread?

What about our Christian testimony.....doesn't this matter anymore?? Yes, the neighbor's assumption in your example you gave would be WRONG, but so is the attitude of "well I'm not sinning & it's not hurting anyone." This is where it's WRONG....when we feel we can do things because we don't see the harm in it, we definitely can cause other people to stumble & lead them AWAY from Christ instead of toward Christ. I hope you will pray about this........It's all about what we do & does it bring glory to Christ? If we live our lives as to please Christ, then we lead people toward him.

Exactly, SG!!! The Bible does tell us that no man liveth to himself. But today's Christianity doesn't agree with that.

[ptwild]

Don't forget the verse, "Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." Just because you have in the past spent the night with your g/f and didn't fornicate, doesn't mean you won't in the future. Wisdom needs to be applied to something of this nature.

And whether we like it or not, people do look at us and assume things. Our testimony is important to presenting true Christianity.

I understand that there is always the possiblity of a slip up. But considering that she has waited all this time (she's in her late 20's, well educated and self supported, i.e. she's been out on her own for a while) and the fact that we are both committed to the Christian life style, I'm not too worried about it. We see each other maybe three or four times a year so we have the fartherest thing from a physical relationship that you can imagine. Our relationship is built on our Christian worldview and our respect for each other's intellect. She knows that I do not intend on marrying and she's ok with that. She doesn't tempt me, all the while knowing that the only way I'll marry is if I'm unable to control my lust, and she respects my decision and is happy being my long distance g/f and nothing more. Eventually, she'll start thinking about children and it will end. It always ends that way.

[HappyChristian]

I understand that there is always the possiblity of a slip up. But considering that she has waited all this time (she's in her late 20's, well educated and self supported, i.e. she's been out on her own for a while) and the fact that we are both committed to the Christian life style, I'm not too worried about it. We see each other maybe three or four times a year so we have the fartherest thing from a physical relationship that you can imagine. Our relationship is built on our Christian worldview and our respect for each other's intellect. She knows that I do not intend on marrying and she's ok with that. She doesn't tempt me, all the while knowing that the only way I'll marry is if I'm unable to control my lust, and she respects my decision and is happy being my long distance g/f and nothing more. Eventually, she'll start thinking about children and it will end. It always ends that way.

Well, your relationship sounds more platonic than b/f, g/f. And, pt, I can promise you that when you fall in love, you'll realize that marriage is not just about controlling lust.

[ptwild]

Well, your relationship sounds more platonic than b/f, g/f. And, pt, I can promise you that when you fall in love, you'll realize that marriage is not just about controlling lust.

It's definitely more than platonic. Just because we don't act on certain feelings doesn't mean we do have them. It's just that we've both made a personal resolution to live according to a Christian worldview which prohibits a physical relationship prior to marriage. She still gets the flowers and candle light dinners when we're together. And I definitely love her. I also know that marriage is more than about controling. I just believe that, based on scripture, marriage is the last resort and that it is better for a man to remain unmarried. Right now the only thing competing with God for my time and affection is my work. And it takes a lot to keep God first with just one competitor, especially when that competitor heaps loads of cash on you. I don't want to further complicate things by taking on a wife and family.

[HappyChristian]

It's definitely more than platonic. Just because we don't act on certain feelings doesn't mean we do have them. It's just that we've both made a personal resolution to live according to a Christian worldview which prohibits a physical relationship prior to marriage. She still gets the flowers and candle light dinners when we're together. And I definitely love her. I also know that marriage is more than about controling. I just believe that, based on scripture, marriage is the last resort and that it is better for a man to remain unmarried. Right now the only thing competing with God for my time and affection is my work. And it takes a lot to keep God first with just one competitor, especially when that competitor heaps loads of cash on you. I don't want to further complicate things by taking on a wife and family.

Well, if you don't feel God would have you marry, then you shouldn't.

[John81]

Good posts LuAnne and SouthernGal!

There are too many professing Christians these days who simply refuse to live by the commands and principles of Scripture. It's no wonder so many professing Christians end up shacking up, pregnant without being married, as drunks, porn addicts and a host of other wicked, sinful situations that could have been avoided by abiding in the Word.

[Madeline]

I understand that there is always the possiblity of a slip up. But considering that she has waited all this time (she's in her late 20's, well educated and self supported, i.e. she's been out on her own for a while) and the fact that we are both committed to the Christian life style, I'm not too worried about it. We see each other maybe three or four times a year so we have the fartherest thing from a physical relationship that you can imagine. Our relationship is built on our Christian worldview and our respect for each other's intellect. She knows that I do not intend on marrying and she's ok with that. She doesn't tempt me, all the while knowing that the only way I'll marry is if I'm unable to control my lust, and she respects my decision and is happy being my long distance g/f and nothing more. Eventually, she'll start thinking about children and it will end. It always ends that way.

I'm glad that the majority here see it as I do. Here's how I see it. You are boyfriend and girlfriend. That means that you are sexually attracted to each other. Yet, you have not married. Within Christianity, "married" is where the sensual/sexual part of your relationship may be morally acted out. Because you are not married you are morally obligated to make sure you do not give yourself the opportunity to sexually sin. Being with a boyfriend (or girlfriend) in the privacy of a house... especially all night....allows the temptation to turn into sin. In fact, if a couple has done this already, it would be difficult to believe they are not sexually active. They are playing with fire (morally). To allow this type of behavior to begin or continue outside marriage is mocking God. We are not to put ourselves in the way of temptation. Remember, He will not be mocked. If a couple finds the attraction between them to be so strong that they wish to maintain the relationship "all" night, then one must ask, why not be married? Self-restraint isn't easy, but there is no way to get around the teachings of the Bible concerning maintaining self-control. The reason a couple are not married apparently needs to be examined by them more closely. There is no reason for single men and women to stay over night together, even if they are mere friends. The neighbors may misunderstand. Christian's have the reputation of God in their choices..... A very serious responsibility.

Love,
Madeline

[John81]

I'm glad that the majority here see it as I do. Here's how I see it. You are boyfriend and girlfriend. That means that you are sexually attracted to each other. Yet, you have not married. Within Christianity, "married" is where the sensual/sexual part of your relationship may be morally acted out. Because you are not married you are morally obligated to make sure you do not give yourself the opportunity to sexually sin. Being with a boyfriend (or girlfriend) in the privacy of a house... especially all night....allows the temptation to turn into sin. In fact, if a couple has done this already, it would be difficult to believe they are not sexually active. They are playing with fire (morally). To allow this type of behavior to begin or continue outside marriage is mocking God. We are not to put ourselves in the way of temptation. Remember, He will not be mocked. If a couple finds the attraction between them to be so strong that they wish to maintain the relationship "all" night, then one must ask, why not be married? Self-restraint isn't easy, but there is no way to get around the teachings of the Bible concerning maintaining self-control. The reason a couple are not married apparently needs to be examined by them more closely. There is no reason for single men and women to stay over night together, even if they are mere friends. The neighbors may misunderstand. Christian's have the reputation of God in their choices..... A very serious responsibility.

Love,
Madeline

Excellent post!