Angel in the Flame

[Standing Firm In Christ]

After a question in BakerHalfDozen's contest page concerning a man seeing an angel rise in a flame, I felt that I knew of two different correct answers.

The answer BHD was seeking was 'Manoah, who saw the angel of the Lord rise ina flame.

I pointed out another occasion were a man saw angels rising in a flame. This account, of course, was that of Elisha watching Elijah rise in a whirlwind in a chariot of fire. Now, I know Elijah was not an angel, man does not become an angel...this is clear. But, Scripture tells us that the chariot not only was drawn by horses, but was also driven by horsemen.

I believe those 'horsemen' were angels.

Thoughts?

[Guest Guest]

"2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

I believe this "fire" is the brightness that comes from Holiness and purity. That brightness which caused moses to put a veil over his face when he came down from the mount...

"Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

[Bakershalfdozen]

2 Kings 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

What I'm curious about are the phrases Elisha spoke. What exactly did he mean by "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof"?

Yes, Elijah went up in a chariot but why does Elisha call it the chariot of Israel and references the horsemen pertaining to said chariot?

[Guest Guest]

What I'm curious about are the phrases Elisha spoke. What exactly did he mean by "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof"?

Israel was not supposed to multiply chariots or horses unto themselves. Traditionally though, in that area of the world, the strength of a country was judged by how many chariots and horses it could raise; they were the strongest military arms of the day. Elisha was saying that Elijah, through God, was the power defending Israel. Thus he said Elijah was "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof."

[Jerry]

Horsemen is plural.

[Guest Guest]

Horsemen is plural.

Yes it is, but I guess I am missing what you are saying...

[Jerry]

Elijah is A MAN, not MEN - therefore he is not the horseMEN referred to.

[Guest Guest]

Elijah is A MAN, not MEN - therefore he is not the horseMEN referred to.

Ah ok, I get what you are saying then, I thought maybe that was what you were saying but I wasn't sure. The thing is though, it would still be a valid reference whether singular or plural. It is a symbolic reference not a literal reference.

As proof this is speaking symbolically, and has nothing in particular to do with Elijah going up in a chariot, lets look at what the King of Israel said to Elisha when he was dieing.

"2 Kings 13:14 Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof."

Elisha had a double portion of the Spirit of Elijah, and exactly the same thing was said of him even though he did not go up in a chariot.

[Jerry]

You can't have a symbol without having the reality first. It is possible that the second reference was symbolical - making some connection to the first, which was literal.

[Guest Guest]

[quote]You can't have a symbol without having the reality first. It is possible that the second reference was symbolical - making some connection to the first, which was literal.

[/quote]

Well please give your opinion of what was meant then. To me when Elisha says:

[color=#0000FF]"My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof."[/color]

It looks exactly as if he is saying that Elijah was the protection of Israel and lamenting his departure. Elijah was the man standing in the gap and making up the hedge before God. That also seems to be what king Joash is saying of Elisha as well. Remember all the times the king of Israel escaped his enemies by Elisha's warnings? Then remember how later he prayed to God that the army of the king of Syria be smitten with blindness when they tried to capture him and instead of taking them where they wanted led them to the King of Israel? That was an example of Elisha being the chariot and horsemen of Israel. He did more than chariots or horsemen could have done. Therefore, it would seem to make perfect sense to call both of them the chariot and horsemen of Israel in a symbolic manner.

[Jerry]

I don't have an alternate explanation. I believe the first reference is literal, but can see that the second one probably is not - though I have not studied it out lately in order to see that (beyond your posts today).