Centrifuges Spinning. Do sanctions work?

[1Timothy115]

North Korea, and next Iran! Do sanctions work? Do agreements work with belligerents?

Korea had been on a steady diet of sanctions longer than I can remember. However, sometime in the late 90s they exploded a nuclear weapon. In the early 00s they were recognized as having sufficient fissile material for as many as 8 plutonium based nuclear weapons. Hey, they already put a satellite in space so, we know they have the ability to deliver nukes anywhere in the world.

I found the following on Wiki (I sure would like a better source) and added the underlining for emphasis:
The negotiators successfully reached the U.S.-North Korea Agreed Framework in October 1994 (Pres. Clinton sends Jimmy Carter to negotiate with N.K.):

• North Korea agreed to freeze its existing plutonium enrichment program, to be monitored by the IAEA;
• Both sides agreed to cooperate to replace North Korea's graphite-moderated reactors with light water reactor (LWR) power plants, to be financed and supplied by an international consortium (later identified as the Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization or KEDO) by a target date of 2003;
• The United States and North Korea agreed to work together to store safely the spent fuel from the five-megawatt reactor and dispose of it in a safe manner that does not involve reprocessing in North Korea;
• The United States agreed to provide shipments of heavy fuel oil to provide energy in the mean time;
• The two sides agreed to move toward full normalization of political and economic relations;
• Both sides agreed to work together for peace and security on a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula; and
• Both sides agreed to work together to strengthen the international nuclear non-proliferation regime.
  
  When did the sanctions begin as incentive to discourage N.K. from pursuing a nuke? The best date I could find was in 1994 "U.S. President Bill Clinton's administration announced that it would ask the UNSC to impose economic sanctions; Pyongyang responded that it would consider economic sanctions "an act of war."" so, how long have sanctions been 'in play?' I'm going looking for Biblical examples of sanctions/agreements in the Bible.

[ThePilgrim]

It seems to me that indeed sanctions are an act of war.  Sanctions used as a means of causing another nation to suffer in hopes of coercing them to submit to your will.  You certainly not want to cause a friend to suffer, but you might want an enemy to suffer.  Sanctions used as are used as a mean to gain submission short of a military war.  This is just my opinion.  You might call it a Cold War that can lead up to a hot war. Just my opinion, so it may not be worth the box I typed it into.  

[Alan]

In the Old Testament economy, in relation to the land of Israel, the Jews were forbidden by God to agree to any treaty, sanctions, etc.. They were to use military force, under the direct leading of God, to be destoyed. The sanctions with Korea, Iran, Russia, et tal, are a joke. The politicians know that they do not work. It is a political expedient to please either the populace or compromise with the country involved.

[ThePilgrim]

In the Old Testament economy, in relation to the land of Israel, the Jews were forbidden by God to agree to any treaty, sanctions, etc.. They were to use military force, under the direct leading of God, to be destoyed. The sanctions with Korea, Iran, Russia, et tal, are a joke. The politicians know that they do not work. It is a political expedient to please either the populace or compromise with the country involved.

​God told the Israelites to take the land he had promised and to not make any deals with the inhabitants but to utterly destroy them.  The United States has (to my knowledge anyway) received a command from God to Take over the world or even a single other country.  The American people are not a chosen people or even as our president seems to think the nation that is to bring "democracy" to the world whether it wants it or not.  We have no God given right to demand that any other nation do anything, except leave us alone in peace.  

[Alan]

If you please read the context I did not mention the United States at all, nor even insinuate, that the United States has received a command to do as the nation of Israel was commanded to do in the Old Testament economy. I only stated what God told the Jews to do in  the Old Testament economy. Please note also; I specifically mentioned the Old Testament economy; not the New Testament at all.

Nor did I say, mention, or even insinuate the the United States is a 'chosen country.' You added that to find fault with my post. Sometimes I feel you have a bone to pick over for my public love for America and the nation of Israel. I may be mistaken, but I almost feel like you are trying to make me look bad to the brethren.  

[Covenanter]

Sanctions always & only hurt the common people. The rich & powerful always have ways of getting what they want. Resentment builds & minority groups, especially Christians feel the pressure - after all, the sanctions are imposed by "Christian" nations. 

 

[Alan]

1Timothy 115 and ThePilgram, If you read my post carefully you will notice that I agreed to both of your  post about sacnctions. I am in perfect agreement with what you previously said. Sanctions do not work and they are only devised by  politicians who  cannot lead properly. I am not atrying to cause trouble nor stir the pot. I  just gave an example, from the Bible, to show the hypocrisy of our elected leaders. Maybe I should not use examples from the Bible in this  Christian forum?

[John81]

America's Founders recognized this as well. They advised America make no entangling alliances with other nations and that America stay out of other nations internal affairs and their wars. At the same time they called for economic trade with all willing nations.

As has been pointed out, sanctions are (at the least) and act of economic war and whatever effect they have, it hits the poor and average citizens hardest. While our leaders have said hurting the citizens will lead to revolt history has proven otherwise. Sanctions hurting the citizens typically makes them hate the nations(s) doing this and brings about a patriotic zeal (to one extent or another) to stand by their leaders.

Meanwhile, China or other nations profit by not participating in the sanctions so they can be the ones to sell material to those nations either openly or by back channels. In so doing they also gain favor with the people of those nations.

[1Timothy115]

All good comments...as far as I know, for that matter what do I know. It was only an observation based on one nation's actions with regard to sanctions. It appeared to me that my own country (USA) was complicit in breaking agreements with N.K. I don't see any pots stirred above, only reflection on what is perceived from watching the governments of the world interact. Here are some verses I thought were relevant.

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 

 

[Alan]

Amen and amen.

[John81]

I wish I could remember the name of the program, perhaps someone here has seen it and recalls the name, which pointed out that use of sanctions was a major factor in turning what could have remained regional wars into world wars.

Much of the focus of the program was upon Japan's of invasion against China and the responses to that by the UK and US. Sanctions imposed upon Japan forced Japan into a corner with only two options: bow to the demands of the UK and US or wage an expanded war in order to gain access to what the UK and US were blocking. Anyone knowing the Japanese of that time would recognize their martial honour system wouldn't allow them to even consider bowing to the demands which meant once those sanctions were imposed, widespread war (with all its death and destruction) was inevitable.