When Is The Church Not The Church?

[AVBibleBeliever]

When we use the bible word church to describe the place of fellowship.

 

When we use the bible word church in part of the title of our place of fellowship.

 

My whole point is to get you thinking about how you use Bible terms in un-biblical ways.

 

The more we call our places of fellowship churches the more we put credence to the Roman Catholic teaching that the church is a building or place of fellowship instead of the body of Christ.  When we do such we are subtly affirming that membership in a local "church" equals salvation"  it also puts credence to works over faith.

 

What is the church?

 

and How they are to assemble?

 

These are not clearly taught that is why it has deteriorated to what we do today in calling our fellowship the Independent Baptist Church of "what so ever and ever".  The Bible never used the term church in that way. 

 

 I am going to paste here a teaching on the church written by a KJV Bible Believer.  Using only the word of God.  and hopefully if any of you read it you will see why I challenge you to use biblical terms and word when we speak. and to desire to practice those things you learn as well.

 

 

[HappyChristian]

 

 

When we do such we are subtly affirming that membership in a local "church" equals salvation"  it also puts credence to works over faith.

Not true.  

[AVBibleBeliever]

Not true.  

 

 

I will post a great article by a KJV Bible believing man.

 

Then afterwords we can answer your questions.

[HappyChristian]

I don't have any questions. I'm just saying that statement is false. That's all. 

[AVBibleBeliever]

[AVBibleBeliever]

[AVBibleBeliever]

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There is only ONE Body of Christ that is made up of many members. That ONE Body is identified in the Word of God as the CHURCH. Christ only has one Body.

That said, there are also buildings called Churches in the Bible.

In Revelation, we see Jesus speaking to the angel that was sent to the Church at Sardis, to the angel at the Church at Ephesus, and to five ofther Churches in other geographical locations.

I believe those Churches in Revelation to be places of worship where members of the ONE CHURCH, the Body of Christ met. Individually, we are not separate Churches. Rather, we are all members of ONE Body, ONE CHURCH, of which every joint supplieth.

[Ukulelemike]

There are local, new testament churches, to which 98% of the NT references are written, and there is the church, overall, the full body of all believers, (despite how many may argue against that, it IS biblical). 

 

The building is not the church, though there is nothing wrong with giving a local body a name with 'church' in the title, to identify it as such. There is little difference between the church at Galatia and Bible baptist church of Herlong. We give them more of a name now, because with so many false groups calling themselves churches, we add so we can identify what we are. If I just say the church at Herlong, well, many will ask, Which One? The AOG? The SBC? The BBC? the Catholics? the mormons? We identify further in the name to show the difference. We may hate denominations, but they DO help to identify WHAT we are. Not necessarily a right/wrong issue, but a necessity today.  

[AVBibleBeliever]

a few food for thought questions

 

1) Why are there so many divisions of the blood bought Saints to the point they have to have so many different doctrines and practices?

 

2) Which group of blood bought Saints is correct and who is not?

 

3) Are we willing to emphasize that the church is not the place but the group of blood bought saints?  (Happy clarified that and I knew that.  My point was to get minds stirred up to think biblically about the words we use, especially when it comes to the word church or churches.)

 

4) Knowing what we have learned above how many of you are willing to forgo fellowship with blood bought Saints that are not of our Genre?  If so why?

 

5) How much can we rely on the teaching of men verse the teach of Gods word?  If you know that Gods words are pure, true and right should we not put all we learn to the text of the Holy Scriptures and not our Bible colleges, commentaries and dictionaries?

[AVBibleBeliever]

 

Which One? The AOG? The SBC? The BBC? the Catholics? the mormons? We identify further in the name to show the difference. We may hate denominations, but they DO help to identify WHAT we are. Not necessarily a right/wrong issue, but a necessity today.

Good point uke you are on the right track, but I think your conclusion is wrong.  Because most of what we add to God's words are not of God but men.  should we allow men to help us define who and what we are?  or Should we filter it all through solid Bible first and let God define what we are?

[AVBibleBeliever]

Not true.  

Happy we cannot know anyones heart this is for sure.  the Bible does speak of knowing them by their fruit.  I and you have seen people in the fellowships that do not have changed lives and many of them give more than a Tithe.  The unsaved in the fellowships give more money than the saved.  I got that statement from the Operation World Stats of 2001.  hence the conclusion is they are replacing faith with works for salvation.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

George Anderson???  The Ruckmanite?

Interesting that you are quoting a Ruckmanite.

I thought you said months ago you weren't a Ruckmanite?

You continuously reveal the fact that you are.

[HappyChristian]

Happy we cannot know anyones heart this is for sure.  the Bible does speak of knowing them by their fruit.  I and you have seen people in the fellowships that do not have changed lives and many of them give more than a Tithe.  The unsaved in the fellowships give more money than the saved.  I got that statement from the Operation World Stats of 2001.  hence the conclusion is they are replacing faith with works for salvation.

Your first statement here is accurate. PrOBlem is, by that statement, you negate the statement that referring to a church "subtly affirming that membership in a local "church" equals salvation"  it also puts credence to works over faith."  And that is why I said your statement was not true.

 

Some people replace works for salvation, but simply referring to a place as a church does not affirm, in any way, that membership is equal to salvation nor does it put credence of works over faith.  That is a very broad-brush statement and it just isn't accurate - no matter who comes to that conclusion.  

 

There may be lost folk who attend our church (and, yes, I did use that word), but if so, they are in the minority, and  definitely do not give more $ or time or anything than those who are members. And, if they attend often, they hear the truths about salvation on a consistent basis - no way that anyone could assume that our usage of the word church in our name implies works.  

 

While I admit the same would not be true of other places, we cannot broadbrush and say it is the general order of things.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

 I sincerely believe we can know a persons' heart.  That which is in the persons' heart eventually manifests itself sooner or later.

If we can't know what is in a persons' heart, then why would the Apostle Peter speak of men of "like precious faith"?  Why would the Apostle Paul call anyone saints and faithful? 

Why?  Because what was in their hearts manifested on the outside.  Their actions and words revealed they were indeed "saints and faithful Brethren".

We can know whether one is saved or not, just as the Apostles also knew.