Ephesians 4 and cessationism

[MikeWatson1]

I have looked at Ephesians 4 and it was shown to me that it is a supporting passage for the cessation of supernaturally empowered ministry gifts.

With 1 co 13 as the main passage shown for sign gifts ceasing..Ephesians 4 was shown to me as ministry gifts ceasing.

What that meant is we now have faith, hope and love as abiding spiritual gifts. 

When I look at Ephesians 4 though  .. that looks to me like maturing in a church in unity with other members, rather than saying at a time in the future, ministry gifts will cease. 

'The knowledge of the unity of the faith' 'measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ ' was shown to me to be the complete canon..but now I don't know if the passage supports that. 

Your thoughts?

 

 

[Jerry]

The church still exists and is not perfected yet. However, as far as the spiritual sign gifts, they were until the perfect came (ie. complete canon of Scripture - ending with Revelation). God is no longer giving ANY new revelation; therefore, the signs of an apostle are no longer needed. But the maturing and edifying of the churches will keep going on until the rapture, when the church is no longer on the earth.

For those who need a breakdown of how 1 Corinthians 13 teaches that the sign gifts were done away with the completion of the Bible, this might help:

https://ewministries.earnestlycontending.com/1-corinthians-1312/

Edited July 28 by Jerry
Clarifying

[MikeWatson1]

On 7/28/2024 at 1:40 PM, Jerry said:

The church still exists and is not perfected yet. However, as far as the spiritual sign gifts, they were until the perfect came (ie. complete canon of Scripture - ending with Revelation). God is no longer giving ANY new revelation; therefore, the signs of an apostle are no longer needed. But the maturing and edifying of the churches will keep going on until the rapture, when the church is no longer on the earth.

For those who need a breakdown of how 1 Corinthians 13 teaches that the sign gifts were done away with the completion of the Bible, this might help:

https://ewministries.earnestlycontending.com/1-corinthians-1312/

I am mostly agreeing with you, but what church are you referencing? 

I believe all redeemed are not 'the church', not until all believers become one assembly in heaven. 

 

[Jerry]

All redeemed are part of the church. Yes, we will be in one “called out” body in heaven, but right now we are to be part of local churches.

For the sake of the conversation, an individual believers who are not part of a sound local congregation will definitely be missing out on certain things the Lord wants to do in their lives - including discipling and maturing them in the way God intends. Obviously, a true believer who diligently studies and applies the Word of God on their own will still grow in the Lord - but as much as they are not part of a local church, they will not be part of the blessings of a body, not be accountable in the same way, lose out on fellowship and participation in the ordinances, care and discipline of that local church. They will also be in more danger from wolves and false teachers.

Hebrews 10:19-25
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

[Joe Chandler]

On 7/26/2024 at 9:26 PM, MikeWatson1 said:

I have looked at Ephesians 4 and it was shown to me that it is a supporting passage for the cessation of supernaturally empowered ministry gifts.

With 1 co 13 as the main passage shown for sign gifts ceasing..Ephesians 4 was shown to me as ministry gifts ceasing.

What that meant is we now have faith, hope and love as abiding spiritual gifts. 

When I look at Ephesians 4 though  .. that looks to me like maturing in a church in unity with other members, rather than saying at a time in the future, ministry gifts will cease. 

'The knowledge of the unity of the faith' 'measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ ' was shown to me to be the complete canon..but now I don't know if the passage supports that. 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Mike, I think that personal perfection is referred to here:

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I also don't think ministry gifts have ever ceased, but only the sign gifts such as tongues, prophesy, faith healers, etc. 

[Jerry]

Verse 12 is referring to the sign gifts, mentioned all throughout 1 Corinthians 12-14.

Also, personal “perfection” doesn’t make any sense in this passage. God is not going to stop the use of sign gifts for each single individual when they have arrived. They stopped as a whole st a certain point in time. When was that point? When that which is perfect/complete came - the end of the first century. And there are historical accounts of the fading away and ceasing of the sign gifts later on in the first century.

Biblically, an individual can be perfect now (ie. mature spiritually). There are various places in the NT where this is taught. Just look up the word and see how it is used. It is not used in reference to being sinless (the Bible never uses it this way) or meeting some spiritual height, except in the following verse:

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

We are not yet what we will be one day when we see Jesus, though another verse a little further on says this:

Philippians 3:15-16
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We can be mature spiritually as we walk daily with the Lord and apply His Word to our lives.