Who will blink first?

[ThePilgrim]

Pat Buchanan is not sure.  Because I love my children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren, I hope we will.

From Buchanan.org/blog/

NATO-Russia Collision Ahead?
Tuesday - June 23, 2015 at 12:26 am
By Patrick J. Buchanan

“U.S. Poised to Put Heavy Weaponry in East Europe: A Message to Russia,” ran the headline in The New York Times.

“In a significant move to deter possible Russian aggression in Europe, the Pentagon is poised to store battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and other heavy weapons for as many as 5,000 American troops in several Baltic and Eastern European countries,” said the Times. The sources cited were “American and allied officials.”

The Pentagon’s message received a reply June 16. Russian Gen. Yuri Yakubov called the U.S. move “the most aggressive step by the Pentagon and NATO since the Cold War.” When Moscow detects U.S. heavy weapons moving into the Baltic, said Yakubov, Russia will “bolster its forces and resources on the western strategic theater of operations.”

Specifically, Moscow will outfit its missile brigade in Kaliningrad, bordering Lithuania and Poland, “with new Iskander tactical missile systems.” The Iskander can fire nuclear warheads.

The Pentagon and Congress apparently think Vladimir Putin is a bluffer and, faced by U.S. toughness, will back down.

For the House has passed and Sen. John McCain is moving a bill to provide Ukraine with anti-armor weapons, mortars, grenade launchers and ammunition. The administration could not spend more than half of the $300 million budgeted, unless 20 percent is earmarked for offensive weapons.

Congress is voting to give Kiev a green light and the weaponry to attempt a recapture of Donetsk and Luhansk from pro-Russian rebels, who have split off from Ukraine, and Crimea, annexed by Moscow.

If the Pentagon is indeed moving U.S. troops and heavy weapons into Poland and the Baltic States, and is about to provide arms to Kiev to attack the rebels in East Ukraine, we are headed for a U.S.-Russian confrontation unlike any seen since the Cold War.

And reconsider the outcome of those confrontations.

Lest we forget, while it was Khrushchev who backed down in the Cuban missile crisis, President Eisenhower did nothing to halt the crushing of the Hungarian rebels, Kennedy accepted the Berlin Wall, and Lyndon Johnson refused to lift a finger to save the Czechs when their “Prague Spring” was snuffed out by Warsaw Pact tank armies.

Even Reagan’s response to the crushing of Solidarity was with words not military action.

None of these presidents was an appeaser, but all respected the geostrategic reality that any military challenge to Moscow on the other side of NATO’s Red Line in Germany carried the risk of a calamitous war for causes not justifying such a risk.

Yet we are today risking a collision with Russia in the Baltic States and Ukraine, where no vital U.S.
interest has ever existed and where our adversary enjoys military superiority.

As Les Gelb writes in The National Interest, “the West’s limp hand” in the Baltic and “Russia’s military superiority over NATO on its Western borders,” is “painfully evident to all.”

“If NATO ups the military ante, Moscow can readily trump it. Moscow has significant advantages in conventional forces — backed by potent tactical nuclear weapons and a stated willingness to use them to sustain advantages or avoid defeat. The last thing NATO wants is to look weak or lose a confrontation.”

And NATO losing any such confrontation is the likely outcome of the collision provoked by the Pentagon and John McCain.

For if Kiev moves with U.S. arms against the rebels in the east, and Moscow sends planes, tanks and artillery to annihilate them, Kiev will be routed. And what we do then?

Send carriers into the Black Sea to attack the Russian fleet at Sevastopol, and battle Russian missiles and air attacks?

Before we schedule a NATO confrontation with Russia, we had best look behind us to see who is following America’s lead.

According to a new survey by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, fewer than half of the respondents in Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Spain thought NATO should fight if its Baltic allies were attacked by Russia. Germans, by a 58-38 margin, did not think military force should be used by NATO to defend Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, though that is what Article 5 of the NATO charter requires of Germany.

Americans, by 56-37, favor using force to defend the Baltic States. On military aid to Ukraine, America is divided, 46 percent in favor, 43 percent opposed. However, only 1 in 5 Germans and Italians favor arming Ukraine, and in not a single major NATO nation does the arming of Ukraine enjoy clear majority support.

In Washington, Congressional hawks are primed to show Putin who is truly tough. But in shipping weapons to Ukraine and sending U.S. troops and armor into the Baltic States, they have behind them a divided nation and a NATO alliance that wants no part of this confrontation.

Unlike the Cuban missile crisis, it is Russia that has regional military superiority here, and a leader seemingly prepared to ride the escalator up right alongside us.

Are we sure it will be the Russians who blink this time?

[John81]

Somewhere along the line many here decided it was America's duty, right even, to rule the world. America wasn't the first nation to try this and certainly won't be the last.

The policy established by the Founders was to stay out of other nations internal affairs and their external wars. Traditionalists, Constitutionalists, and actual conservatives once held to this policy as well. Eventually it seems the power America came to have after WWII led to a great deal of pride and the idea America could and should police the world and trying through any means necessary to manipulate or control the other nations of the world.

The fact that today (6-25-2015) is the anniversary of the start of the Korean War should give everyone pause. At that time America was over confident, feeling powerful, feeling none would challenge her, and she was caught off guard and nearly driven off the Korean peninsula.

Even after General MacArthur's brilliant landing at Inchon and his drive deep into North Korea, American politicians refused to give him the go ahead and wherewithal to deal with the Chinese invasion that battered our forces. Then, when our forces recovered and could have driven the Chinese back to China the American politicians refused to allow it, choosing to "negotiate" with the Chinese for months on end while American soldiers had to bleed and die in a war they would not be allowed to win.

Now, consider how much trouble America had in the war with Iraq. How long it took to get organized, to get the troops and materials into place, to get the attack going, and then to hold what they thought they had easily gained control of. After that, what would it be like if America bungled into war with Russia in Ukraine? Russia isn't a tiny Arab country with an army unprepared for modern warfare.

Now, consider the massive debt America took on pursuing the extended war in Iraq and how that's damaged our economy. What would a war with Russia, which would likely cost much more, do to our economy? The VA isn't taking care of our soldiers now, what would it be like with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands more vets needing their care?

Our major European allies have made it clear they want nothing to do with anything that might even possibly provoke a war with Russia. Some have even made statements to the effect if such a war were to occur they would be unwilling to send their forces into battle.

Have we not got enough problems within our borders to deal with right now? Have we not got enough enemies without looking to take on more?

I'm not a Trump supporter but he has made some good comments regarding Russia, Mexico and other nations which would be much more in America's interests than those of the current Administration or the neo-con war hawks.

If America doesn't tend to what's most important soon she will suffer the same fate as Rome.

[Covenanter]

Surely it's better to have friends than enemies? Only the armament manufacturers & big corporations can win in a war. "We" are brainwashed into believing Commies, Socialists, Blacks, native Americans, immigrants, the poor, religious fundamentalists (Christian & Muslim,) etc, are the enemies of America, the EU & the West. Those folk are sinners who need the Gospel, for whom Christ died.

In fact, our great enemies ARE the armament manufacturers & big corporations, as represented by our governments. Satan delights to prejudice us into thinking "strangers" are our enemies. 

We can live with people of every political & religious persuasion, & witness to them, but the danger comes with political & military power when the laws make honest folk criminals. 

From an Iraq war song (edited):

They wound us up with racism to get us in the mood
For a spot of collateral damage over the price of a barrel of crude
They talk about legality but they never told me me rights
I couldn’t stick their hypocrisy so I swore I wouldn’t fight.

The enemy ain’t the other side wherever they draw the line
The enemy is the ruling class who bank the bottom line.

 

 

[John81]

Today's so-called conservatives in America act as if the idea of the power and danger of the military industrial complex is a made-up liberal slogan when it was actually Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower who warned about this threat.

War for the sake of profits for a few is not good.

I remember many people expecting there to be a great economic boom because of the long war in the Middle East. They recalled how such occurred during WWII and expected similar now. They failed to take into consideration that America no longer supplies herself but instead buys a great deal of even her military necessities from other countries.

The owners of these corporations in other countries had an economic boom and some of the workers in other countries benefited from having plenty of work, but most Americans did not.

Governing by use of perpetual fear, threats of war and actual war is not healthy governing. We need statesmen in leadership positions who will actually serve the best interests of the nation and her people, not special interests and self-aggrandizement.

[DennisD]

I don't know John, I think there is a good possibility America might be the last country to try and police the world.  Time will tell but so many signs to show America will fall (sooner rather than later) and then who knows what happens.  Maybe Christ comes back, that will be a wondrous day.

[John81]

China is poised to become the next dominate world power. They are already asserting themselves in Asia. Once they have built their Pacific fleet and other military resources they will expand their influence and will. Who is going to stand in their way? America won't risk a huge conflict with China, especially with the possibility of nukes becoming involved and no longer being able to borrow money from them. Japan, South Korea, Philippines, are incapable of holding China back.

Around the world China is using it's vast wealth reserves to gain access, and their way, in other countries. In our folly it's America that is providing China with these vast wealth reserves due to our insatiable desire to spend and toss money around like it grows on trees and our willingness to borrow that money from China paying huge sums in interest for the "favor".

[DennisD]

China is poised to become the next dominate world power. They are already asserting themselves in Asia. Once they have built their Pacific fleet and other military resources they will expand their influence and will. Who is going to stand in their way? America won't risk a huge conflict with China, especially with the possibility of nukes becoming involved and no longer being able to borrow money from them. Japan, South Korea, Philippines, are incapable of holding China back.

Around the world China is using it's vast wealth reserves to gain access, and their way, in other countries. In our folly it's America that is providing China with these vast wealth reserves due to our insatiable desire to spend and toss money around like it grows on trees and our willingness to borrow that money from China paying huge sums in interest for the "favor".

I don't disagree that China is a dominate world power.  But, Christ could certainly come at any time correct?  So, I am not sure how we can be certain that America will not be the last great world power.  China is still decades away from a vast Pacific fleet.  And, while I agree that China looks poised to take on the world as a superpower, there are some analysts and analysis that show China actually declining in some aspects.  I think Communism is starting to catch up with them personally.  Their type of government is hard to continue with the amount of technology that allows their citizens access to a wealth of information.  They've done a great job thus far censoring a lot of things but I think it will eventually catch up to them and we'll see some serious call for change by their citizens.

[John81]

No doubt Christ could come at any moment...I'm ready! America may be the last superpower, or we may be among the last of those to know America before her fall. It was once thought Rome could never fall, at another point it was considered that Great Britain would rule the world forever. America was once viewed as a backwater, barely second-rate nation yet she quickly rose to dominate much of the second half of the 20th century world.

China has been riding an extremely high growth rate which can't be sustained forever. While some of her growth indicators have dropped, they are still exceptional and still vastly superior to our own.

If Christ returns soon, if there is another Great Awakening in America, if sensible statesmen are elected to public office in mass numbers, things will all go different.

If none of those things happen any time soon, we are likely to see the downfall of America (probably mostly from within), the rise of China as the dominate world power, the fall of Europe and the EU, India on the rise, and who knows what else.

Thanks be to God, whatever the future holds, we know the ultimate outcome and our final destination! Until then we can live for Christ and serve Him as He leads.