Atheists and delusion

[DennisD]

Good one, It is surprising how many times the CIA and the FBI own up to lying and faking videos such as the Bin-ladden videos, and people just keep on trusting them. People should remember that due to these lies the west is losing its freedom and our military is causing unjust carnage.

I am beginning to realise that it is when people TRUST their Government that they will easily and always believe everything they say, and then justify them when they are exposed.

Have you every heard of psychological operations by chance?  If I remember correctly, those Bin Laden videos were a form of PSYOP or Military Deception...which are both legitimate operations for the United States military.  I'm unsure what unjust carnage you are speaking of specifically but would be interested to hear what you mean.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Have you every heard of psychological operations by chance?

Yes I have. And you know what I mean, using lies to justify going to war. If you elevate Christ above your Nation I'm sure things will eventually become clearer. Bottom line:

Mr 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

Lu 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

And I'm sure that would include a secret secular government which makes lies its shelter.

You can't trust Christ and Herod.

Here is a scriptural reference to what looks like 'Skull and Bones' of their day.

Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. (Western World)
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

[DennisD]

Yes I have. And you know what I mean, using lies to justify going to war. If you elevate Christ above your Nation I'm sure things will eventually become clearer. Bottom line:

Mr 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

Lu 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

And I'm sure that would include a secret secular government which makes lies its shelter.

You can't trust Christ and Herod.

Here is a scriptural reference to what looks like 'Skull and Bones' of their day.

Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. (Western World)
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

You obviously haven't heard of psychological warfare or operations as what you've just said is not what it is.  This has nothing to do with elevating Christ above my Nation...I already consider Him eternally more important than my nation.  This is about you not knowing what the definition of something or having an understanding about what you are speaking about.  This was not meant as a put down, I was sincerely asking so that I could explain it to you.

Here is an example of PSYOP that was used in World War II

http://www.psywarrior.com/gulfwar.html

 

[DennisD]

Still am interested in hearing about the unjust carnage you were speaking of.  So, that we are "clear"...I am not saying there isn't any...just wondering what exactly you were referencing with your comment.

[DennisD]

Ahh, I see...you mean the Bin Laden tapes were lies to justify going to war?  I thought they were used or going to be used to make Bin Laden seem illegitimate so that Muslims didn't back him?  Didn't have anything to do with promoting a war.

[Old-Pilgrim]

You know Bin Laden wasn't killed/captured in a cave right?  You know he had almost unlimited resources when it comes to money correct?  Hmm.

You know the twin towers fell because of fire/structural issues correct?  When metal heats it expands, then cools and shrinks, and so on and so forth.  I am a volunteer firefighter and this is basic knowledge in the fire service.  The Twin towers did withstand the impact from aircraft...the weakness was the elevator shaft and expanding/shrinking of metal.  It doesn't take much time to research this objectively.

NORAD didn't track flights in the United States before 9/11..hence, why would USAF jets be scrambled?  Or why would they be scrambled in time since there was no tracking of the flights...

I've seen the stories about those identified on passenger lists are still alive and well.  There is absolutely no proof of this and it's speculation.  There is not one photo or video of said persons.

110 storys of rubble falls on a 47 story building and you are surprised it didn't collapse from a plane?  How about the several thousands of tons of rubble that was on it...of course it collapsed!  Or, from all the fire that spread to the surrounding buildings...

I know people personally that were at the Pentagon, they saw the plane.  But, I suppose maybe all those regular people are just liars or have decided to join the government in the most impossible conspiracy known to man.  Who can be deluded into this?  Oh, I don't know, maybe the thousands of people that saw the plane circle and crash into the Pentagon...

 

One question for you, can you post us some video clips of steel frame buildings collapsing because of fire so we can see how they fell?

And one statement, there was other buildings closer to the twin towers which got more rubble right on top of them, and they also burned but they never collapsed.

[DennisD]

One question for you, can you post us some video clips of steel frame buildings collapsing because of fire so we can see how they fell?

And one statement, there was other buildings closer to the twin towers which got more rubble right on top of them, and they also burned but they never collapsed.

I would expect someone that was so enamored by this to spend the time researching it.  I don't believe in the conspiracy so there is no need for me to do your work for you.  If you want to objectively research it, you'll have to read both conspiracy theory websites and sites that describe the science, theory and speculation of how it could have happened.  Then, you can make your own decision from there.  I have looked at both and have made the decision that the impact, fire and how the building was structured would allow the "pancake" type of effect that happened that day.  When one floor collapses down, it's been shown that the weight and impact of that would be a domino effect on the lower floors.  

The burden of proof lies on those that think it's a conspiracy.

I don't know a whole lot about tower 7 but I do know that many regular citizen firefighters felt the building was unstable and the FDNY chief called for the evacuation because of what his firefighters witnessed.  I suppose I have a hard time believing random, normal, citizens who are firefighters were a part of a cover up to collapse Tower 7.  But, if you believe it...it's your right to believe it, I just don't see any proof to make me think it was anything other than what regular firefighters witnessed.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Ahh, I see...you mean the Bin Laden tapes were lies to justify going to war?  I thought they were used or going to be used to make Bin Laden seem illegitimate so that Muslims didn't back him?  Didn't have anything to do with promoting a war.

The whole war on terror is based on lies, (unfortunately for the peoples of the earth) But if you go back and look, it was the lies which was linked in a video which Covenanter posted which I was referring to as a pretext for war. The Gov' has been taken over by the enemy, that is why they shot JFK because he was not bowing to their threats. You are the one who is being deceived so the ball is in your court to find out what is blinding your eyes and see the truth. I used to be so Pro British that it blinded me to many things, but no more, the truth is the truth.

[DennisD]

The whole war on terror is based on lies, (unfortunately for the peoples of the earth) But if you go back and look, it was the lies which was linked in a video which Covenanter posted which I was referring to as a pretext for war. The Gov' has been taken over by the enemy, that is why they shot JFK because he was not bowing to their threats. You are the one who is being deceived so the ball is in your court to find out what is blinding your eyes and see the truth. I used to be so Pro British that it blinded me to many things, but no more, the truth is the truth.

The Gospel is Truth.  Your opinions on conspiracies are not truth unless they are substantiated by facts.  I see no facts, only conjecture.

I am an extremely logical person, I don't trust the government wholeheartedly but I also don't subscribe to random conspiracy theories made up by MAN.

[Potatochip]

I would expect someone that was so enamored by this to spend the time researching it.  I don't believe in the conspiracy so there is no need for me to do your work for you.  If you want to objectively research it, you'll have to read both conspiracy theory websites and sites that describe the science, theory and speculation of how it could have happened.  Then, you can make your own decision from there.  I have looked at both and have made the decision that the impact, fire and how the building was structured would allow the "pancake" type of effect that happened that day.  When one floor collapses down, it's been shown that the weight and impact of that would be a domino effect on the lower floors.  

The burden of proof lies on those that think it's a conspiracy.

I don't know a whole lot about tower 7 but I do know that many regular citizen firefighters felt the building was unstable and the FDNY chief called for the evacuation because of what his firefighters witnessed.  I suppose I have a hard time believing random, normal, citizens who are firefighters were a part of a cover up to collapse Tower 7.  But, if you believe it...it's your right to believe it, I just don't see any proof to make me think it was anything other than what regular firefighters witnessed.

I didn't even know that I simply assumed they felled the building for safety reasons.  You have to be aware there are agitators and anarchists that can put anything they want on the web.  People that simply don't like the US.  They could be communists,  socialists or just plain anarchists.  They used to distribute literature like that before the web.  I'd be careful who I listened to. 

Edited June 27, 2015 by Potatochip

[DennisD]

I didn't even know that I simply assumed they felled the building for safety reasons.  You have to be aware there are agitators and anarchists that can put anything they want on the web.  People that simply don't like the US.  They could be communists,  socialists or just plain anarchists.  They used to distribute literature like that before the web.  I'd be careful who I listened to. 

Yes, I kind of wondered that myself as Old Pilgrim was putting me down about how I trusted the government.  But, most of the sites that promote these conspiracies are ran by some crazy individuals (i.e. communists and anarchists like you said).

Of course, it's not about me trusting the government blindly...it's just that I've never seen any proof that shows these conspiracies have any merit whatsoever.

Edited June 27, 2015 by DennisD

[Potatochip]

Yes, I kind of wondered that myself as Old Pilgrim was putting me down about how I trusted the government.  But, most of the sites that promoted these conspiracies are ran by some crazy individuals (i.e. communists and anarchists like you said).

Of course, it's not about me trusting the government blindly...it's just that I've never seen any proof that shows these conspiracies have any merit whatsoever.

I think what the Bible tells me to think in regards to government from the NT.  Of course there is more to it.  But God wants us to live peaceful, honest lives.  He also wants all men to be saved and come to know the truth.  So I pray for those in authority.  I can't help but think Paul was talking in Roman times.  Of course this was what God wanted for all times.  I mean ROME? lol that couldn't have been milk and cookies during that time for certain. God in the sum of it all seems to leave the Kings of the earth in honor and throws Satan out like a discarded branch.  For misleading the Nations.  I believe in a strict Bible interpretation of how to think about the government in the NT.  

[Potatochip]

This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

 

I mean that verse gets me lol.   I watch all this going on.  Many are going to go at it tooth and nail over the next Presidential election lol.  I really like you folks.  If you followed a strict interpretation of the Bible.  You would pay attention to the Bible and forget all the other nonsense and really marvel at some of the stuff that's going on.  

Edited June 27, 2015 by Potatochip

[Old-Pilgrim]

I would expect someone that was so enamored by this to spend the time researching it.  I don't believe in the conspiracy so there is no need for me to do your work for you.  If you want to objectively research it, you'll have to read both conspiracy theory websites and sites that describe the science, theory and speculation of how it could have happened.  Then, you can make your own decision from there.  I have looked at both and have made the decision that the impact, fire and how the building was structured would allow the "pancake" type of effect that happened that day.  When one floor collapses down, it's been shown that the weight and impact of that would be a domino effect on the lower floors.  

The burden of proof lies on those that think it's a conspiracy.

I don't know a whole lot about tower 7 but I do know that many regular citizen firefighters felt the building was unstable and the FDNY chief called for the evacuation because of what his firefighters witnessed.  I suppose I have a hard time believing random, normal, citizens who are firefighters were a part of a cover up to collapse Tower 7.  But, if you believe it...it's your right to believe it, I just don't see any proof to make me think it was anything other than what regular firefighters witnessed.

So your Answer to my question One question for you, can you post us some video clips of steel frame buildings collapsing because of fire so we can see how they fell? No.

You are obviously a strong believer in all that sort of stuff you are repopulating, I'm sure you would be able to get onto the payroll of some branch of government I won't judge your motives.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Britain Using PsyOps Domestically to Encourage “Conformity”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/britain-using-psyops-domestically-to-encourage-conformity/5458468

One of the reports from 2011 outlines JTRIG’s tactics, including uploading YouTube videos containing “persuasive communications,” starting Facebook groups and Twitter accounts, and creating fake online personalities and supporters “to discredit, promote distrust, dissuade, deter, delay or disrupt.”

JTRIG also relies on an understanding of psychology which is “critical” to operations. The unit used social media campaigns to encourage and foster “obedience” and “conformity”. Section 3.6 Obedience, says compliance can be achieved by “engendering liking (attractiveness); instilling a sense of scarcity or secrecy; getting compliance to a small request at first.”

Essentially, the U.K. government is using an elite unit of spies to launch psychological operations on “extremists” by creating fake accounts and videos to promote conformity and obedience. However, the practice is not exclusive to the U.K.. PsyOps are used by nations around the world.

The 2002 edition of the Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms defines psychological operations as

integrated employment of the core capabilities of electronic warfare, computer network operations, psychological operations, military deception, and operations security, in concert with specified supporting and related capabilities, to influence, disrupt, corrupt or usurp adversarial human and automated decision making while protecting our own.

The United States military was famously caught using psychological operations in 2011, when Rolling Stone reported that “the U.S. Army illegally ordered a team of soldiers specializing in ‘psychological operations’ to manipulate visiting American senators into providing more troops and funding for the war.”

Indeed, the operations seem crucial to the mission of the United States government (and totalitarian governments around the globe, for that matter). According to the leaked U.S. Special Forces counterinsurgency manual:

Without a doubt, the U.S. government continues to label its own population “extremist” and is focusing its propaganda efforts domestically. The U.S. Special Forces Counterinsurgency Manual—as well as the new Snowden documents—should be required reading for all revolutionaries seeking to understand the tactics of the U.S. government. Only by educating ourselves can we hope to form a united, empowered front against government tyranny.

But Hell, I never Joined this forum to study Antichrist and its tactics.