Ergun Caner

[John B. Carpenter]

John C - do you have any other source besides James White?

Ergun Caner! Listen to him on video yourself saying:

 

 

1. he was born in Istanbul, Turkey

2. as a boy growing up in Turkey he only knew American culture through what he had seen on TV there

3. he was educated in a Madrasah (a Islamic religious school) in Beirut, Lebanon

4. he came to the USA in 1978 at age 14

5. his father immigrated with his several wives (using the “Abraham lie” to claim his plural wives were really his sisters)

6. they came here to be Islamic missionaries to America

7. he took his prayer rug to school and prayed toward Mecca in his high school bathroom

8. he came into a Baptist church in full Islamic garb, carrying  a Koran

9. he speaks what he implies is Arabic,

10. he's engaged in debates in Mosques with Muslims.

[ASongOfDegrees]

 

Hey, ASongofDegrees: Caner made the following claims, as anyone can still hear on the internet. Can you verify them:

 

1. he was born in Istanbul, Turkey

2. as a boy growing up in Turkey he only knew American culture through what he had seen on TV there

3. he was educated in a Madrasah (a Islamic religious school) in Beirut, Lebanon

4. he came to the USA in 1978 at age 14

5. his father immigrated with his several wives (using the “Abraham lie” to claim his plural wives were really his sisters)

6. they came here to be Islamic missionaries to America

7. he took his prayer rug to school and prayed toward Mecca in his high school bathroom

8. he came into a Baptist church in full Islamic garb, carrying  a Koran

9. he speaks what he implies is Arabic,

10. he claims he's engaged in debates in Mosques with Muslims.

 

How 'bout you supply the link? And also supply the link with hard evidence to the contrary. Till then I don't wanna hear your tripe.

[John B. Carpenter]

Calvinist's seldom talk of anything else than White.

Oh, and about their puppetmaster

That's nonsense. Many Calvinists have never heard of James White. Probably the overwhelming majority of them haven't. White is simply the one who has documented Caners lies the most prominently because White really debates Muslims and was informed by Muslims of Caner's false claims.

[ASongOfDegrees]

ASOD,

 

As above, Caner shows little real knowledge of Islam. He speaks gibberish he claims is Arabic; he doesn't even know how to properly refer to Islamic scripture, like someone who didn't even know how to cite a chapter and verse of the Bible. He was raised by his mother after the age of 8 and his mother appealed the instruction that he be raised as a Muslim; his mother wasn't Muslim and Caner never went to a Madrasa in Beirut as he claimed.

According to wikipedia his mother did convert to Islam and the court ordered he be raised in the religion.

[Dr James Ach]

How was it exaggerated? He was raised Islam his father even getting a court order for it to be so. Sounds like you have an ax to grind.

Yes he and White have an axe to grind. But they are right about Caner, but dead wrong in their approaches. White saw this as an opportunity to use it against those who oppose Calvinism because he conveniently "stumbled" on this information ADMITTEDLY when Caner was calling him out to debate about Calvinism. Now White acts like he's doing it because "Caner claims to do what I do". His followers have made NUMEROUS fake Twitter accounts of not only Caner, but also Caner's followers. One of them is called "Lumpy Peter" which has a sexual innuendo as a parody account of Peter Lumpkins. They made videos of James White's sister, Patty Bonds, making fun of her for getting divorced, and being a "party animal" with videos of bikini clad bimbos wearing "Bonds" underwear, and another fake video of her getting it on with a man on a couch in cartoon format.

 

I have all of this and much more documented on my site, and having been beating this drum for several weeks now, and not one single Calvinist on their side has stepped up and repudiated these actions from White and JD Hall's supporters because in their eyes, the end justifies the means just as much as John Calvin killing Michael Servetus justified shutting up a heretic. Anyone who thinks White has no ulterior motive in this is either willfully ignorant or deliberately complicit.

 

White's buddy, JD Hall, who just hosted James White on his radio show, said that Brewton Parker college hiring Caner was an act of hatred against Muslims. Now do you have any idea how many Muslims could jump on that and use it to justify attacking BP college students? It was an irresponsible comment, and Hall himself even admitted he said it in anger, and that it was a stupid comment. But did he repent for it or apologize?? NOPE because so long as these hypocritical Pharisees see an opportunity that helps promote their agenda at destroy us "gullible fundamentalists" they will do so until every one of us are buried next to Michael Servetus.

 

JD Hall even claimed that Caner, and one of his supporters, Pastor Timothy Rogers, and Peter Lumpkins are unsaved for defending Caner. Not only does that show that Hall is confused between Calvinism and Arminianism, but he won't dare make that same claim about Norman Geisler. WHY NOT? Because even though Norman Geisler is anti-Calvinist and has even been named by James White as being complicit in the Caner enablement, most Christians including Calvinists still respect Norman Geisler as an apologist, and Hall knows that if he went so far as to claim that Norman Geisler was an unregenerate child of the devil, he'd get more backlash then he's willing to handle, so like the coward he is, sticks to labeling only those who don't have the massive following and international respect that Geisler has.

 

Yes, Ergun Caner has some things I wish he would answer, but so does JD Hall and James White. Particularly, James White's treatment of his sister Patty Bonds, threatening her for exposing their father as a child molester who sexual abused her for several years. White simply brushes it off as "oh, she turned Catholic so she's not credible". The RCC is a cult, no doubt, but Catholics get raped too, but since White doesn't consider it an apologetics issue, he ignores it, and that's why they went after Timothy Rogers because he forced White to respond to it and made a dumb comment in the process. But dumb comments are only allowed by Calvinists. JD Hall blasted Rogers on his radio show, and had several hundred people call all of Rogers family and church members, but yet he ignores the complaints for his lies about why Eric Hankins resigned from Connect316, his comments about BP hating Muslims, and his failure to prove that Pastor Rogers is an unsaved Baptist preacher.

 

So again, Caner has some issues, but God have mercy on the way in which his opponents have attacked him. What is ironic about this is that since Calvinists do not believe that a person dead in sins can repent unto salvation apart from God forcefully regenerating him unto faith, how Hall demands such extreme appeals to the wills of Caner and Rogers to repent is mind boggling.

[candlelight]

Candlelight, usually the last stand of someone who is a liar himself is claiming his opponent is not saved. Once they open this door you pretty much have to walk away from them. It's pretty much a variation of Godwin's Law.

 

Great advice, ASOD.  The hatred and lies displayed for Ergun Caner by JohnB are outrageous.  I would suggest he read the Caner brother's book that I posted above.  It is well worth the read.  Just as you saw him speak, I read the brother's words in their book, and I am certain they were truthful.  I have no need to listen to such garbage like this.

[Dr James Ach]

Hi James Ach,

 

Yes, you're right. I was wrong. I assumed, with the unfounded attacks on James White, the use of the "Calvinism" red herring -- common with the Canerites like Peter Lumpkins -- that you too were a Canerite. I should have checked first before jumping to conclusions. I'm sorry about that. 

 

I'll try to edit my comment to remove the reference to you. 

Now is that true repentance? Was that called repentance when Timothy Rogers said the exact same thing over his comment to James White that he has been so castigated over? Just something to think about, but I am not as petty as your friends and will not stoop to their level, so apology accepted, and God bless you.

[John B. Carpenter]

I actually saw Ergun Caner preached at Jerry Falwell's church when visiting my mother. I really liked him. Not sure about his doctrinal stance on things but he sounded good to me.

 

Not saying this means much but I knew nothing of the man prior but as soon as he stood up there to preached I could almost "feel" that he was a former Muslim. I don't think a phony could pull that off.

A phony did pull that off. If you had heard him before 9/11, he would have introduced himself as "Butch".

I have a link in about my first or second post above. Or you can go to youtube and type in "Ergun Caner".

And my posts are truth, not tripe. Stop spewing insults.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Do you have Ergun's birth certificate?
Were you Ergun's childhood neighbor?
Have you gone to Beruit to check Ergun's childhood records?
Do you have proof that he was in the states prior to age 14
Have you met Ergun's dad?
Were you with Ergun when he visited that Baptist Church?
Do you speak Arabic?
Have you visited any mosques and asked imam's about that?

Probably not. You are simply relying on what you have been fed by your religion's idol.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Yes he and White have an axe to grind. But they are right about Caner, but dead wrong in their approaches. White saw this as an opportunity to use it against those who oppose Calvinism because he conveniently "stumbled" on this information ADMITTEDLY when Caner was calling him out to debate about Calvinism. Now White acts like he's doing it because "Caner claims to do what I do". His followers have made NUMEROUS fake Twitter accounts of not only Caner, but also Caner's followers. One of them is called "Lumpy Peter" which has a sexual innuendo as a parody account of Peter Lumpkins. They made videos of James White's sister, Patty Bonds, making fun of her for getting divorced, and being a "party animal" with videos of bikini clad bimbos wearing "Bonds" underwear, and another fake video of her getting it on with a man on a couch in cartoon format.

 

I have all of this and much more documented on my site, and having been beating this drum for several weeks now, and not one single Calvinist on their side has stepped up and repudiated these actions from White and JD Hall's supporters because in there eyes, the end justifies the means just as much as John Calvin killing Michael Servetus justified shutting up a heretic. Anyone who thinks White has no ulterior motive in this is either willfully ignorant or deliberately complicit.

 

White's buddy, JD Hall, who just hosted James White on his radio show, said that Brewton Parker college hiring Caner was an act of hatred against Muslims. Now do you have any idea how many Muslims could jump on that and use it to justify attacking BP college students? It was an irresponsible comment, and Hall himself even admitted he said it in anger, and that it was a stupid comment. But did he repent for it or apologize?? NOPE because so long as these hypocritical Pharisees see an opportunity that helps promote their agenda at destroy us "gullible fundamentalists" they will do so until every one of us are buried next to Michael Servetus.

 

JD Hall even claimed that Caner, and one of his supporters, Pastor Timothy Rogers, and Peter Lumpkins are unsaved for defending Caner. Not only does that show that Hall is confused between Calvinism and Arminianism, but he won't dare make that same claim about Norman Geisler. WHY NOT? Because even though Norman Geisler is anti-Calvinist and has even been named by James White as being complicit in the Caner enablement, most Christians including Calvinists still respect Norman Geisler as an apologist, and Hall knows that if he went so far as to claim that Norman Geisler was an unregenerate child of the devil, he'd get more backlash then he's willing to handle, so like the coward he is, sticks to labeling only those who don't have the massive following and international respect that Geisler has.

 

Yes, Ergun Caner has some things I wish he would answer, but so does JD Hall and James White. Particularly, James White's treatment of his sister Patty Bonds, threatening her for exposing their father as a child molester who sexual abused her for several years. White simply brushes it off as "oh, she turned Catholic so she's not credible". The RCC is a cult, no doubt, but Catholics get raped too, but since White doesn't consider it an apologetics issue, he ignores it, and that's why they went after Timothy Rogers because he forced White to respond to it and made a dumb comment in the process. But dumb comments are only allowed by Calvinists. JD Hall blasted Rogers on his radio show, and had several hundred people call all of Rogers family and church members, but yet he ignores the complaints for his lies about why Eric Hankins resigned from Connect316, his comments about BP hating Muslims, and his failure to prove that Pastor Rogers is an unsaved Baptist preacher.

 

So again, Caner has some issues, but God have mercy on the way in which his opponents have attacked him. What is ironic about this is that since Calvinists do not believe that a person dead in sins can repent unto salvation apart from God forcefully regenerating him unto faith, how Hall demands such extreme appeals to the wills of Caner and Rogers to repent.

I'm still waiting for this link, though. I know how much people have slandered Dr. Ruckman with their "quotes" and sources of hearsay and that he can't be saved because of such and such so I'm always suspect. Give me hard evidence and then I'll believe. Until that time I got more out of Caners "lies" from the message he preached then from all the "truth" John Calvin put out in his Institutes.

[ASongOfDegrees]

A phony did pull that off. If you had heard him before 9/11, he would have introduced himself as "Butch".

I have a link in about my first or second post above. Or you can go to youtube and type in "Ergun Caner".

And my posts are truth, not tripe. Stop spewing insults.

Still no link.

[candlelight]

Although, the Caner brothers wrote this book using the NIV, one can take out the KJV and use it while reading, as I did.  It is an awesome book!

http://www.amazon.com/Unveiling-Islam-Insiders-Muslim-Beliefs/dp/0825424283
 

 

[Dr James Ach]

That's nonsense. Many Calvinists have never heard of James White. Probably the overwhelming majority of them haven't. White is simply the one who has documented Caners lies the most prominently because White really debates Muslims and was informed by Muslims of Caner's false claims.

I doubt that many Calvinists have not heard of James White, but the Caner scandal has certainly gained him more of a Calvinist following so much that I think those 2 Jesuits are in on it together. But that's just my unsubstantiated opinion and my well thought out conspiracy theory for the month (stick around I'll have another one next month).

Ron Rhodes, Walter Martin, Robert Morey, Hank Hanegraff, Dave Hunt, Norman Geisler, et al, put out books on Islam long before White lost all of his hair and started wearing bow ties. White, however, thinks he's got the only accurate method of dealing with Muslims (yet I promise you that my brother and law and I here in Israel have led more Muslims to Christ then White will ever dream of debating Shabir Ally, and that's not to boast, but to show that the Biblical method of evangelism is taking to Muslims where they live, not trying to prove your intellectual superiority by bragging about how you slaughtered your opponent in a public debate with a Muslim cleric). 

 

Ironically, of all those authors I named who have produced works on Islam, guess how many of them White has attacked? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Coincidence?? I trow not.

[Dr James Ach]

Still no link.

Brother, they've got the links, there's no question about that. I researched it all from scratch myself I documented some of it Here but the problem I have is with:

 

JD Hall’s Deliberate Lies and Pious Hypocrisy

 

The Calvinists and Ergun Caner

 

James White Followers Threaten to Harass A Detractor

 

JD Hall’s Radio Show and James White Cover Up

 

And I'll just stop there.

[Dr James Ach]

Oh, and while we're on the subject of just how effective White is at debating Muslims, he's so effective that MUSLIMS QUOTE HIM AS EVIDENCE THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD.

 

How James White Helps Spread Islam And Atheism

 

James White on Luke 23:34 Jesus Did Not Forgive Them