Members RSS Robot Posted May 16, 2012 Members Share Posted May 16, 2012 The New Testament everywhere teaches that salvation will be accompanied by evidence. 1. Consider some of the Scriptures that teach that salvation is accompanied by evidence:Consider 1 John 2:3-4.Consider 2 Corinthians 5:17.Consider Titus 1:16, where Paul warned about those who profess Christ but deny Him by their works. Consider 2 Timothy 2:19, where we see that the seal of salvation is the two-fold truth that God knows those who are His and that the true believer will demonstrate his salvation by departing from iniquity. To depart from iniquity is not the way of salvation; it is the evidence of salvation. Consider Ephesians 2:8-10. Though salvation is “without works” in that it is God’s free gift through Christ, it is “unto good works” (Eph. 2:8-10). The good works are God’s works showing themselves in the individual’s life. The good works are the evidence. Consider John 3:3, which teaches that salvation is a supernatural birth that changes the individual’s life.Consider the conversions described in the Gospels under Christ’s earthly ministry. In every case the individual’s life was dramatically changed: e.g., the woman at the well (John 4), Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10). Consider the conversions described in the book of Acts. Again, in every case the individual’s life was dramatically changed: e.g., those who were saved on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41-42), the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-39), Paul (Acts 9:1-21), Lydia (Acts 16:14-15), the Philippian jailor (Acts 16:27-35). Consider the believers at Thessalonica who modeled genuine salvation (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10).View the full article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 This is very unpopular teaching today! Many today want to misapply "Lorship salvation" claims to such talk, or declare one is trying to be "super spiritual" or "holier than thou". An often repeated refrain from those who dislike what the Bible says here is that "God only cares about what's in my heart, not what I do!" Ignored is the fact Scripture teaches that what's in our heart shows forth in our speech and actions. Scripture warns we are to examine ourselves to make sure we truly saved, and the way we are told to do this is by looking at our lives to see if we are conforming more and more to Christlikeness or continuing to walk in our own flesh doing our own thing. Scripture is very clear that if we are biblically born again we are no longer the same person as before, there will be noticable change in our lives as the Holy Spirit is with us. The idea that one just has to "believe", with no actual repentance, no sign of the Spirit in their lives, and they are heavenbound; or that they can live like the devil all they want but so long as they said a prayer or claim to "believe" they are heavenbound, is unscriptural and points many to false hope and an eternity in hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1John2:15-17 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 This is very unpopular teaching today! Many today want to misapply "Lorship salvation" claims to such talk, or declare one is trying to be "super spiritual" or "holier than thou". An often repeated refrain from those who dislike what the Bible says here is that "God only cares about what's in my heart, not what I do!" Ignored is the fact Scripture teaches that what's in our heart shows forth in our speech and actions. . The idea that one just has to "believe", with no actual repentance, no sign of the Spirit in their lives, and they are heavenbound; or that they can live like the devil all they want but so long as they said a prayer or claim to "believe" they are heavenbound, is unscriptural and points many to false hope and an eternity in hell. And many in this same crowd are the ones who will say "only God can judge me" when someone mentions their continued sin/worldly ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 And many in this same crowd are the ones who will say "only God can judge me" when someone mentions their continued sin/worldly ways. True, even though Scripture tells us to test every spirit, to look for the fruit of salvation, to warn others and try to help others to make sure of their salvation. It's also important to understand that whether we question ourselves or another in order to make our (or their) calling and election sure, it's the Scripture that judges, not us. 1John2:15-17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2Tim215 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Are you both "pearlites" living in sinless perfection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Are you both "pearlites" living in sinless perfection? Sorry to say, but this is a classic sort of response to pointing out what the Word of God calls all followers of Christ to. We can't reach "sinless perfection" in this lifetime but God calls us to pursue Christlikeness. As we submit more and more to the lordship of Christ in our lives, as we walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, as we learn and obey the Word of God, there should be more of Christ showing in our lives and less of us. Was Paul, John, Peter or any of the other writers of Scripture "living in sinless perfection" when God commanded them to write His Word which clearly tells us how we are to live? No, of course not, and neither does anyone have to be "living in sinless perfection" today in order to be able to read the Word and live according to the Word through the help of the Holy Ghost. 1 Peter 1:15-16 King James Version (KJV)15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2Tim215 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sorry to say, but this is a classic sort of response to pointing out what the Word of God calls all followers of Christ to. We can't reach "sinless perfection" in this lifetime but God calls us to pursue Christlikeness. As we submit more and more to the lordship of Christ in our lives, as we walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, as we learn and obey the Word of God, there should be more of Christ showing in our lives and less of us. Was Paul, John, Peter or any of the other writers of Scripture "living in sinless perfection" when God commanded them to write His Word which clearly tells us how we are to live? No, of course not, and neither does anyone have to be "living in sinless perfection" today in order to be able to read the Word and live according to the Word through the help of the Holy Ghost. Agreed, then why do some act as if they do and judge, condemn and criticize those that aren't as "Christlike" as they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Agreed, then why do some act as if they do and judge, condemn and criticize those that aren't as "Christlike" as they are? In some cases it's not that they are judging, condemning or criticizing, it's just that those who want to claim to be Christian but live as they please take it that way or make that charge to try and deflect the truth. In cases where one is actually judging, condemning or criticizing, they are doing so because of unattended sin in their own life. We have to be careful in this area, both as one trying to help others and as one who might hear someone trying to help ourselves or others. It's easy to become defensive and think one is attacking when they are not. When we are trying to help someone we have to remember to do so with kindness and love. There are cases where one has a hardened heart and in trying to reach them it can appear more harsh than what it actually is. When Jesus confronted the religious leaders of His day His approach was much more direct and sharp. Those religious leaders took great offense at His words and demanded to know who or what gave Him the right to speak like that. When it comes to actual biblical Christians, we are to help one another make it in this life and to grow in the Lord. We should humbly give and receive such help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1John2:15-17 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 True, even though Scripture tells us to test every spirit, to look for the fruit of salvation, to warn others and try to help others to make sure of their salvation. It's also important to understand that whether we question ourselves or another in order to make our (or their) calling and election sure, it's the Scripture that judges, not us. I agree. One has to be careful that one is not haughty or acting like a pharisee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 I agree. One has to be careful that one is not haughty or acting like a pharisee. Very true and Scripture warns we must do all things in the Spirit and be on guard lest we ourselves get caught up in sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2Tim215 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 In some cases it's not that they are judging, condemning or criticizing, it's just that those who want to claim to be Christian but live as they please take it that way or make that charge to try and deflect the truth. In cases where one is actually judging, condemning or criticizing, they are doing so because of unattended sin in their own life. We have to be careful in this area, both as one trying to help others and as one who might hear someone trying to help ourselves or others. It's easy to become defensive and think one is attacking when they are not. When we are trying to help someone we have to remember to do so with kindness and love. There are cases where one has a hardened heart and in trying to reach them it can appear more harsh than what it actually is. When Jesus confronted the religious leaders of His day His approach was much more direct and sharp. Those religious leaders took great offense at His words and demanded to know who or what gave Him the right to speak like that. When it comes to actual biblical Christians, we are to help one another make it in this life and to grow in the Lord. We should humbly give and receive such help. Very well said John!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 This is very unpopular teaching today! Many today want to misapply "Lorship salvation" claims to such talk, or declare one is trying to be "super spiritual" or "holier than thou". An often repeated refrain from those who dislike what the Bible says here is that "God only cares about what's in my heart, not what I do!" Ignored is the fact Scripture teaches that what's in our heart shows forth in our speech and actions. Scripture warns we are to examine ourselves to make sure we truly saved, and the way we are told to do this is by looking at our lives to see if we are conforming more and more to Christlikeness or continuing to walk in our own flesh doing our own thing. Scripture is very clear that if we are biblically born again we are no longer the same person as before, there will be noticable change in our lives as the Holy Spirit is with us. The idea that one just has to "believe", with no actual repentance, no sign of the Spirit in their lives, and they are heavenbound; or that they can live like the devil all they want but so long as they said a prayer or claim to "believe" they are heavenbound, is unscriptural and points many to false hope and an eternity in hell. And in many churches its very unpopular to preach a sermon that will cause conviction of sin. Instead, sermons are given to make everyone feel good about their self. Feel good & prosperity sermons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Joh 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, Joh 4:29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? This woman did not get defensive. But is this normal? That is, will the majority of people be defensive, or act like this woman did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Joh 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, Joh 4:29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? This woman did not get defensive. But is this normal? That is, will the majority of people be defensive, or act like this woman did? Most today wouldn't dare speak the truth to a woman on such matters for fear of the outcome. At the same time, most professing Christians living in sin get very defensive if the issue comes up. Often they call out that it's their life, that God wants them to be happy, that God knows their heart, that no one should judge them (again, it's the Word which says it's sin), that they are just as good a Christian as anyone else. American Christians seem to be especially bad about thinking they are free to do what they want and no one, no matter what Scripture says, should say anything about it and they always find some loophole for why it's okay for them to be engaged in their particular sin. It's a shame so many pastors and other Christians have been cowed into silence on professing Christians living in open sin. They fear to point out the truth because they know that not only will those living in open sin take offense and lash out, but there will be many other professing Christian who will side with the open sinners against the pastor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 Your correct, your average Christian will strike back if you confront them about their sin, usually attacking that person, telling them all of their faults. Yet, many times, if your happen to be leading a lost person towards salvation, they might just accept the fact that they're a sinner, & repent, confess, & accept Jesus as Savior. It can be easy to get discouraged. We all probably do at one time or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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