Odinism to Christianity

[Alumentum]

Ok, I made this thread to learn more about Christianity. I am reading the Bible on my own but, I'm going to have questions so I hope to post them here. Hopefully, since you guys know more about your religion than I do, you can help me relate your beliefs to mine to make this easier to understand and, in the end, easier to give up my own beliefs for yours. I want you all to understand that I'm not Odinist simply because one day I just chose to be. My beliefs are all I have left of my biological parents save for a picture and a necklace. This isn't going to happen over night but, I have to start somewhere.

Anyways, for my first questions. After reading Genisis a few times I'm kinda making a few connections.

1. Why did God give Man dominion over everything and not something else?

2. In Eden, there are two trees. One of Life and one of Knowledge of Right and Wrong correct?

3. Why wouldn't God want us to touch the tree of Knowledge of Right and Wrong? Wouldn't he want us to know what right and wrong is?

4. Why is the serpent a bad thing and why does it talk Adam and Eve into eating the fruit?

5. Why wouldn't God respect Cain's offering as much as Abel's?

6. What did God mean by clean animal when he was telling Noah which animals to put on the ark?

7. Why would Noah make one of his sons family line a slave of anothers?

8. When man was building the Tower of Bable, why did he scatter them?

9. When the men of Sodom wanted to know Lot why was that bad? Am I misunderstanding the meaning of this?

10. Why did Lot's wife turn to salt when she looked back at Sodom?

11. Why did God ask Abraham to give Isaac and then make him stop?

12. Why was Joseph enslaved?

13. Why is it bad for Egyptians to eat bread with Hebrews?

Um, sorry for all of the questions X /

[HappyChristian]

Ok, I made this thread to learn more about Christianity. I am reading the Bible on my own but, I'm going to have questions so I hope to post them here. Hopefully, since you guys know more about your religion than I do, you can help me relate your beliefs to mine to make this easier to understand and, in the end, easier to give up my own beliefs for yours. I want you all to understand that I'm not Odinist simply because one day I just chose to be. My beliefs are all I have left of my biological parents save for a picture and a necklace. This isn't going to happen over night but, I have to start somewhere. It really is quite understandable that this is hard for you, al. Especially in light of your heritage.

Anyways, for my first questions. After reading Genisis a few times I'm kinda making a few connections.

1. Why did God give Man dominion over everything and not something else?
Man was created in the image of God - not to look just like Him, and was the only being created with a soul (the soul is what lives eternally).
2. In Eden, there are two trees. One of Life and one of Knowledge of Right and Wrong correct?
There are more than two trees - God told Adam and Eve they could eat of any tree in the garden, save the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
3. Why wouldn't God want us to touch the tree of Knowledge of Right and Wrong? Wouldn't he want us to know what right and wrong is?
If you read again, you will see that God never told Adam not to touch the tree...simply not to eat of it. Eve told the serpent they weren't to touch it, adding to God's Word.
4. Why is the serpent a bad thing and why does it talk Adam and Eve into eating the fruit?
The serpent was taken over by the devil. The devil (satan) had once been an angel in Heaven - in fact, the angel of music. He decided that he would raise himself above God...and was cast out of heaven, with the angels who decided to follow him. Then God created Adam and Eve...and the devil saw another way to try and take charge. By tempting Eve. She did what so many people do: she listened to what he had to say, and then began to reason within herself, rather than OBeying God. And so she ate of it. And then she brought it to Adam, who joined her. And it was through this that sin came into the world.

Adam and Eve were created perfect - innocent. They did not know evil at all. But they were also created with a free will: they could choose to continue to OBey God or they could choose to go their own way. They chose to go their own way. And the death that came upon them was twofold: physical and spiritual. God knew that, in their fallen state, if they ate of the Tree of Life, they would live physically forever...but their bodies would age and become decrepit. So, in His mercy, He put them out of the garden. Before He did, though, the first blood was shed: the animal with whose skin God covered them. And the first prophecy of the coming Christ was given: that the serpent would wound the heel of the woman's seed, but the seed would crush the serpent's head. That spoke of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ (woman's seed...) His death (wounded heal) and His resurrection (crushing the serpent's head: complete victory over death and satan).
5. Why wouldn't God respect Cain's offering as much as Abel's?
When God required sacrifices, He laid out a certain way to do it. Animals. Because the sacrifices were due to sin, there needed to be blood shed (because the Bible tells us that without the shedding of blood there is no remission, or taking away, of sin). Abel offered the correct sacrifice. Cain, on the other hand, decided to do things his own way. That doesn't cut it with God.
6. What did God mean by clean animal when he was telling Noah which animals to put on the ark?
There were certain animals God called clean (it's outlined in another book) that were to be used for sacrifice and later were the only ones to be eaten by the Hebrews.
7. Why would Noah make one of his sons family line a slave of anothers?
His son committed a heinous sin, and thus was cursed.
8. When man was building the Tower of Bable, why did he scatter them?
They were building the tower to reach heaven...but that isn't the way God intended man to reach heaven.
9. When the men of Sodom wanted to know Lot why was that bad? Am I misunderstanding the meaning of this?
The term "know" meant in a sexual way. Homosexuality is an abomination to God.
10. Why did Lot's wife turn to salt when she looked back at Sodom?
Because God had extended mercy on them to get them out of Sodom before it was destroyed...and He warned them not to even look back. She did.
11. Why did God ask Abraham to give Isaac and then make him stop?
God was testing Abraham, and saw that he would OBey. Abraham, however, knew that he and Isaac would come down from that mountain - whether God raised Isaac from the dead after Abraham sacrificed him, or however God chose to do it. Isaac was the son of promise, and Abraham knew God keeps His Word.
12. Why was Joseph enslaved?
Joseph himself told his brothers that they meant it for evil, but God for good...God knew that severe famine would come to Egypt, and He put Joseph into a postition to be able to see the country (and other countries around) through it.
13. Why is it bad for Egyptians to eat bread with Hebrews?
There were certain rules of separation, due to religious reasons.
Um, sorry for all of the questions X /

Don't be sorry for your questions! That's one of the surest ways to learn. My answers were very simple - each question could actually be answered in great length! I'm sure someone else will answer, as well (if they haven't already while I'm writing this.

[Alumentum]

Ok. Most of that makes sense now than it did before. If none of you mind, I'm going to attempt to relate what I have read in Genisis to what I already belive.

So in the beginning, God made heaven an earth. Earth was void and had no form.
To me this would be similar to the realm of fire(Muspellheim) and the realm of ice(Neiflheim) collided in the realm of nothingness. The realm of nothing became the tree of life called Yggdrasil.

God then made day and night and made the sun and the moon to rule them as well as the stars.
In Odinism. The tree of life contained 6 of the 9 worlds. The first to inhabit the tree were the Giants. The giants consisted of Earth, sky and several others. The sun was the Giant Sol and the Moon is the Giant Mani. Sol and Mani aren't actually giants but, the are huge beings that are not gods. They pull the sun and moon across the sky with the chariots because wolves are chasing them.

Then God seperated the seas from water and also drew them together to make land and stone.
In my beliefs, by now the offspring of the Giants, the gods, were in existence. The god Thor defeated the serpent Jormundgand, the offspring of the Giant Loki. He then commanded the serpent to seperate Midgard(land of humans) from the seas. Midgard is made from the body of the first Giant that came into existence, Ymir. Ymir was killed by the gods Odin, Vili and Ve. These gods then used Ymir's blood to make water, flesh for land, bone for stone, skull for sky(which is held in place by the dwarvs North, South, East and West), brains(Ew) for clouds, and his eybrow to place the world of Midgard. When they were done they made man from two logs. Odin made the logs into man and gave them breath and life, Vili gave them their soul and feelings and Ve gave them hearing and sight. They were commanded to tame the world of Midgard which was their gift. Then, Odin claimed the highest of the 9 worlds, Asgard, as his own. He left the worlds of fire and ice without rulers, the world of Midgard to man, the world of Alfheim to elves(the spirits of animals and plants), the world of Svarltalfhiem to darkelves( dwarves), the world of Vanaheim to the Vanir(various gods of life and creation), the world of Jotunhiem to the Jotnar(giants who are trying to destroy Midgard) and the world of Hel to Nioavellir(ghosts) and this is the new realm of nothing.

That's pretty much it for most of the Odinist creation theory. I tried to take what I read in Genisis and compare it to something similar in my beliefs. Just to make sure, I am in no way trying to disprove, attack or twist your religion. I'm just trying to see it in a way I already know, so that if(hopefully when) I convert, I don't just have a void in what I know.

[Brother Rick]

WOW!

If learning creation, the attributes of God, the Bible, and salvation is as hard for you as that was for me, I can better appreciate where you're coming from. Keep asking questions, we'll do everything we can to help.

In the end, salvation is a work that takes place in the heart and not the head though. Jesus is someone you receive personally as a Savior, not just someone that you acknowledge exists. You'll get there if you keep your mind and heart open, thanks for letting us play a part in teaching you about Christianity.

[Alumentum]

Well that was sort of the point of the thread. To teach while learning in a way. I think I understand what you mean by needing this to be more than just accepting. As of right now, I 'accept' that the sun is just a ball of burning gas but, I truely believe that it is a disk drawn by the Giant Sol as I already told you about.

So far out of Genisis my favorite part is the story of Noah. If it's ok with you, I'd like to ask some questions on it to understand it a little more.

When God told Noah to build the ark he gave exact directions on how to do it. Was he already planning to flood before he even began creating things?

What does God mean by unclean animals? Would those be the ones that scientists today say went extinct(dinosaurs, mammoths, giants)?

Where did all of the rain come from? Did God make it or did he bring it out of the waters on Earth?

Is there a significant meaning to the Dove, the olive branch and the 40 days and 40 nights? And by bow, did God mean a bow that shoots arrows or something else?


Just to keep up with what I've started, and if you don't mind, I will tell our myth of the great flood.
The first flood came from the slaying of Ymir. His blood made the waters and it swept away and killed most of the Giants that dwelled in the area where Midgard was to be placed. Only two Giants survived and were banished to Jontunhiem.
We also believe there will be another flood in the Final Battle. The serpent Jormundgand will rise up during the war to take revenge on Thor. When he rises up, the seas that he seperated from Midgard will flood it and kill off everything. Thor will strike Jormundgand down and leave his body to be used in the new worlds. However, Thor will be bitten and die from the poison. His hammer will be used to inspire Balder to make humans stronger in the new world since Thor will no longer be there to protect them.

[Alumentum]

Well that was sort of the point of the thread. To teach while learning in a way. I think I understand what you mean by needing this to be more than just accepting. As of right now, I 'accept' that the sun is just a ball of burning gas but, I truely believe that it is a disk drawn by the Giant Sol as I already told you about.

So far out of Genisis my favorite part is the story of Noah. If it's ok with you, I'd like to ask some questions on it to understand it a little more.

When God told Noah to build the ark he gave exact directions on how to do it. Was he already planning to flood before he even began creating things?

What does God mean by unclean animals? Would those be the ones that scientists today say went extinct(dinosaurs, mammoths, giants)?

Where did all of the rain come from? Did God make it or did he bring it out of the waters on Earth?

Is there a significant meaning to the Dove, the olive branch and the 40 days and 40 nights? And by bow, did God mean a bow that shoots arrows or something else?


Just to keep up with what I've started, and if you don't mind, I will tell our myth of the great flood.
The first flood came from the slaying of Ymir. His blood made the waters and it swept away and killed most of the Giants that dwelled in the area where Midgard was to be placed. Only two Giants survived and were banished to Jontunhiem.
We also believe there will be another flood in the Final Battle. The serpent Jormundgand will rise up during the war to take revenge on Thor. When he rises up, the seas that he seperated from Midgard will flood it and kill off everything. Thor will strike Jormundgand down and leave his body to be used in the new worlds. However, Thor will be bitten and die from the poison. His hammer will be used to inspire Balder to make humans stronger in the new world since Thor will no longer be there to protect them.

Just a few random questions to go with the ones above.

1. Is it a sin to date?

2. Is it bad when the person you like is already in a relationship?

3. Is it a sin when you tell someone that another person is doing something bad and that person get's in trouble?

[Brother Rick]

Just a few random questions to go with the ones above.

1. Is it a sin to date?

2. Is it bad when the person you like is already in a relationship?

3. Is it a sin when you tell someone that another person is doing something bad and that person get's in trouble?

Well, let me try to answer your questions like this. There are things in the Bible that are 100% clear cut labeled as sin. Murder, adultery, fornication, lust, greed, selfishness, lying, purposly putting yourself in a position to be tempted to do known sins, etc. Those are things we KNOW for sure are sins.

If it's not in the Bible, there will always be an element of speculation. The Bible is authority, not man. Believers have within them the Holy Spirit, which helps to guide us into all truth. Most of the time, that means going back to the Bible. When we don't have a clear cut answer in the Bible it's usually because of two things:

1. We haven't studied the Bible enough.
2. There is no clear cut answer - BUT there are clear cut principles.


So, let's tackle that first question:

"Is it a sin to date?"

I haven't found anywhere in the Bible where it says it a sin to date.

BUT - the Bible says some other things that we can guide ourselves by:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sin.

Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."


2. Sexual touching outside of marriage is sin.

I Cor. 7:1-2, "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

3. Putting yourself on purpose in a place where you could be tempted to sin, is itself a sin.

Rom. 13:14, "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

When it says "make not provision", it mean basically don't give yourself the opportunity to blow it. Like, a drunk who just got saved and trying to live for Christ has no business hanging out with his friends at a bar. If you're dating a girl, putting yourself in a position where you could be tempted to have sex and have the opportunity is wrong.

So, if you're getting to know a girl, and you're operating within the guidelines of the Bible you're fine. By the way, when people operate within the guidelines of the Bible they typically live happier, more fufilled lives. If people operated within these guidelines there'd be less divorce, less unwanted pregnancies, less STDs, and less teen suicide. Edited June 25, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[Alumentum]

Well, let me try to answer your questions like this. There are things in the Bible that are 100% clear cut labeled as sin. Murder, adultery, fornication, lust, greed, selfishness, lying, purposly putting yourself in a position to be tempted to do known sins, etc. Those are things we KNOW for sure are sins.

If it's not in the Bible, there will always be an element of speculation. The Bible is authority, not man. Believers have within them the Holy Spirit, which helps to guide us into all truth. Most of the time, that means going back to the Bible. When we don't have a clear cut answer in the Bible it's usually because of two things:

1. We haven't studied the Bible enough.
2. There is no clear cut answer - BUT there are clear cut principles.


So, let's tackle that first question:

"Is it a sin to date?"

I haven't found anywhere in the Bible where it says it a sin to date.

BUT - the Bible says some other things that we can guide ourselves by:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sin.

Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."


2. Sexual touching outside of marriage is sin.

I Cor. 7:1-2, "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

3. Putting yourself on purpose in a place where you could be tempted to sin, is itself a sin.

Rom. 13:14, "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

When it says "make not provision", it mean basically don't give yourself the opportunity to blow it. Like, a drunk who just got saved and trying to live for Christ has no business hanging out with his friends at a bar. If you're dating a girl, putting yourself in a position where you could be tempted to have sex and have the opportunity is wrong.

So, if you're getting to know a girl, and you're operating within the guidelines of the Bible you're fine. By the way, when people operate within the guidelines of the Bible they typically live happier, more fufilled lives. If people operated within these guidelines there'd be less divorce, less unwanted pregnancies, less STDs, and less teen suicide.

So it's ok to talk to a girl and have her as a friend(because she is literally my only friend) but, it isn't ok to put myself in a situation to do something stupid?( which I don't think will happen because I barely have the guts to talk to her X ( )

[Brother Rick]

So it's ok to talk to a girl and have her as a friend(because she is literally my only friend) but, it isn't ok to put myself in a situation to do something stupid?( which I don't think will happen because I barely have the guts to talk to her X ( )

You got it!

Nick, you crack me up about the having guts part! By the way, is this girl a Christian?

[Alumentum]

You got it!

Nick, you crack me up about the having guts part! By the way, is this girl a Christian?

Yes she is. From what I've learned so far, I honestly think she's one of the few people in this town that honestly is a Christian and acts like one too.

I'm going to start reading Exodus. After I've read it a few times I'll post some questions.

[Brother Rick]

Yes she is. From what I've learned so far, I honestly think she's one of the few people in this town that honestly is a Christian and acts like one too.

I'm going to start reading Exodus. After I've read it a few times I'll post some questions.

I hope you enjoy it and learn from it. One thing you have to keep in mind when reading the Old Testament, they're under a different "program" because Jesus hadn't arrived yet. The Jews are spreading as a nation and God is working through them. Many times this involves warfare.

That's not God's program now. Jesus said to "love your enemies, do good to them that despitefully use you and persecute you." I recommend reading in the New Testament more than the old, becuase that's more applicable to today.

Here's a few books in the New that I'd recommend:

1. Luke. Luke is going to show you some of the more human side of Jesus, and it has more stories in it of what Jesus did than John does.
2. Romans. This is the textbook, basically, on how God works with Christians. In it you'll learn about the the Godhead, salvation, repentence, prayer, justification, all kinds of things.
3. I Thessalonians. This book will demonstrate to you some basic Christian principals as well as expose you to the teaching of Christ's return to Earth. He's coming back one day.
4. Acts. Acts is the book that talks about what happened right after Jesus ascended to heaven bodily, it's the acts of the Apostles. You have to understand that you're going from the Old Testament (before Jesus) to the New Testament (after Jesus), so some things in it don't really apply to today. Just like how God doesn't want us killing our enemies and declaring war on them anymore.

Outside of the Bible, I highly recommend Johs McDowell's book, "Evidence That Demands a Verdict". It goes into proofs of how we know the Bible is true, evidence that is actually outside of the Bible. Edited June 25, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[Alumentum]

I hope you enjoy it and learn from it. One thing you have to keep in mind when reading the Old Testament, they're under a different "program" because Jesus hadn't arrived yet. The Jews are spreading as a nation and God is working through them. Many times this involves warfare.

That's not God's program now. Jesus said to "love your enemies, do good to them that despitefully use you and persecute you." I recommend reading in the New Testament more than the old, becuase that's more applicable to today.

Here's a few books in the New that I'd recommend:

1. Luke. Luke is going to show you some of the more human side of Jesus, and it has more stories in it of what Jesus did than John does.
2. Romans. This is the textbook, basically, on how God works with Christians. In it you'll learn about the the Godhead, salvation, repentence, prayer, justification, all kinds of things.
3. I Thessalonians. This book will demonstrate to you some basic Christian principals as well as expose you to the teaching of Christ's return to Earth. He's coming back one day.
4. Acts. Acts is the book that talks about what happened right after Jesus ascended to heaven bodily, it's the acts of the Apostles. You have to understand that you're going from the Old Testament (before Jesus) to the New Testament (after Jesus), so some things in it don't really apply to today. Just like how God doesn't want us killing our enemies and declaring war on them anymore.

Outside of the Bible, I highly recommend Johs McDowell's book, "Evidence That Demands a Verdict". It goes into proofs of how we know the Bible is true, evidence that is actually outside of the Bible.

Ok, finally done reading it. Now for the questions I have.

1. Is there a reason why the Pharoh wanted the male babies killed and not the female?

2. Why did God appear as a flame on a bush? Is there a signifigance to it?

3. When Moses went to the Pharoh to demand the release of the Hebrews why did God send the plagues he sent? Is there a signifigance to them?

4. Also, why did God take the firstborn of everything in Egypt?

5. Did he take the first born from the Hebrews as well?

6. Does this have anything to do with the Pharoh killing the male babies?

7. The laws and commandments given in the book are still the ones we should follow? Or are they replaced by laws in the new testament?

8. When the Hebrews were fleeing, God used a pillar of fire to defend them? and then split the ocean through Moses?

9. How did God split the ocean? Did he just will it to happen?

10. When the Hebrews made the golden calf is that breaking the rule of do not make graven images and the various other laws against making a false icon? The penalty for that was death, why were they not killed?

11. After the plagues, the splitting of the ocean and several other things, why would the Hebrews not OBey God without question?

[Brother Rick]

Ok, finally done reading it. Now for the questions I have.

That's very fast, 40 chapters in two hours.

1. Is there a reason why the Pharoh wanted the male babies killed and not the female?

Because males carry on the bloodline, he was trying to thin out the Jews.

2. Why did God appear as a flame on a bush? Is there a signifigance to it?

Yes, in fact, people spend thier whole lives studying many of the questions you've raise, which shows they are very good questions. The significance in that fact that it was a burning bush is answered by another verse in Scripture...

Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of JacOB are not consumed."

The bush would not burn up. The Jews have been the most hated and persecuted people ever, and yet they exist today. In a nation the size of one of the smaller northeastern states, it has managed to survive the constant onslaught of combined nations the size of the U.S. trying to wipe them out - and they've never been able to. The nation of Israel suffers and burns throughout history, but it is never consumed.

3. When Moses went to the Pharoh to demand the release of the Hebrews why did God send the plagues he sent? Is there a signifigance to them?

Yes. I don't know this all that well, but the plagues were actually an attack or discreditment on all the major gods of the Egyptians. Flies, frogs, lice, these were things that worshiped by the Egyptians.

4. Also, why did God take the firstborn of everything in Egypt?

I don't know, other than the fact that Pharoah refused to let the Jews go over and over again.

5. Did he take the first born from the Hebrews as well?

If they had the blood of a lamb on thier door, the death angel did not come by. This was done thousands of years before Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, died on the cross for our sins. He was God's lamb to save us. God told the Hebrews to put the blood of a lamb on the door for a picture of the coming Christ, dozens of generations later.

John 1:29, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

6. Does this have anything to do with the Pharoh killing the male babies?

It might, that is prOBably one of the reasons God killed the Egyptian firstborn. The Bible says we reap what we sow.

[Brother Rick]

7. The laws and commandments given in the book are still the ones we should follow? Or are they replaced by laws in the New Testament?

That's a tricky one. The ceremonial aspects of the law are certainly gone, as the sacrificing of sheep, keeping the Sabbath, etc. But many of the moral aspects are still there. Adultry, murder, lying, stealing - all sins. In fact, in God's eyes, if you do one sin you're just as guilty as the guy whose broken all the laws. The reason being is that you offended the law maker, God.

James 2:10-11, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law"

8. When the Hebrews were fleeing, God used a pillar of fire to defend them? and then split the ocean through Moses?

Yes, pretty amazing, isn't it?

9. How did God split the ocean? Did he just will it to happen?

Yes, He is the master and creator of all things. He can do what He wants, anytime He wants. He is only limited in that He cannot sin.

10. When the Hebrews made the golden calf is that breaking the rule of do not make graven images and the various other laws against making a false icon? The penalty for that was death, why were they not killed?

The penalty wasn't death, and even if it was God is merciful many times and doesn't wipe us out even when we deserve it.

11. After the plagues, the splitting of the ocean and several other things, why would the Hebrews not OBey God without question?

Because mankind is incurable selfish. We always want our own way, but it never satisfies.

[HappyChristian]

Each plague had significance, as Rick said, because of the pantheon of gods the Egyptians worshipped. The first one was the plague of blood. The Nile River was considered the source of life to Egyptians. Turning it to blood made it undrinkable, and OBviously not a life giver!

The next 8 all dealt with individual areas of their gods as well.

The final plague was the death of the firstborn. The Bible does not specify that it was the firstborn male. It says the firstborn of man and of beast. Man OBviously refers to mankind because men can't have babies, right?

Egyptians believed that their Pharaohs were gods. Some believe that was the reason for the deaths - because they worshipped themselves in many ways.