John Young,

Very happy to know that you liked the sermon. I do hope that it is a blessing for you especially as you have started a new church, Edgecliff Baptist church, in Spokane, Washington. May God continue to bless your efforts and the folks at Edgecliff.

Alan

Very timely and well done Alan. I especially liked the way you addressed the time factor in church building. Many times supporting churches get discouraged because they don't see a mission work organized into a NT church in the time frame they think it should be.

The result of this kind of thinking is that the supporting churches begin to pull their support of the missionary, virtually guaranteeing failure to bring the work to fruition.

My original church, where I was saved, started as a mission work. When the work was not formally organized in five years we began to hear complaints. It was interesting that many of the complaints came from churches that had not supported the work.

Our missionary pastor was a teaching pastor who knew the value of teaching grounding principals to his flock. Eventually this mission was organized into a solid, strong, NT church. We put home missionaries on four different mission fields in the time I was there. One mission field was especially difficult, it was far east Magadan Russia.

We were the first church to put Independent Baptist missionaries in Russia when the wall came down. The work was difficult and even dangerous with many obstacles to overcome. Two NT churches were organized there and still stand to  this day. The two missionary pastors from our church that went over there are now back home and pastoring home churches in Alaska.

Keep up the good work Alan and know that missionaries like you are appreciated. Prayer for our missionaries has never been more important than it is now.

 Joh 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. 

Jim,

Thank you very much for the kind words and encouragement. We appreciate them very much. "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver." Proverbs 25:11

It is a blessing to all of us in relating that your church that you were saved in was a mission work. That speaks volumes of the missionary pastor and the folks who had a hand in starting it. I am sure in eternity there will be a lot of shouting when we hear the whole story.

A new church plant with four missionaires! It took real courage for those early missionaires to go to Russia and stick it out. It is very encouraging to all of us in knowing that there are two good IFB works going strong.

God bless all of you!  

Alan

Good post and timely.

Sunday I am preaching a lesson on Hezekiah, particularly when he opened the doors of the temple, and called on Judah and Manasseh and the others of the southern kingdom to come to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover, and to humble themselves before the Lord, after 16 years of his wicked father building up paganism and idolatry. And how, even though it was the command of the king to do that which God commanded, yet many who read the message mocked and scorned the very idea. I will bring this around to how many good, godly churches, teaching the truth of God and just wanting to Honor and obey Him, are often more and more emptying out, as people become 'seekers' seeking entertainment, and distraction and programs.

We have grown pretty small, and inevitable, someone looks around and says, "Is this all today?" It can be discouraging, but my point it, right is still right, and even a minority of people doing God's will, is still the right thing to do, and with the Lord, we are never the minority, and we WILL be blessed if we continue to do well, though so few might want to.

Building a church is tough-so is maintaining it. Solomon built the temple, and later kings kept shutting it down and turning the people to idolatry, and then another king would have to start from scratch. I'm celebrating 14 years as pastor and we are running about 7 right now. One person is a mess-he wants to raise his hands during prayer, just to do it because someone, sometime, ONE time said to him that it was what Christians do in church. Now, last Sunday, during a song, he put his book down and laid prostrate on the floor until the song was over. Apparently he saw or heard something about that. And of course, we had a guest family, who I suspect we won't see again. And while it is a small disturbance, it's not really anything WRONG I can point to, but I suspect he doesn't help anyone want to be here. Not like open sin or rebellion that I can send him out for.

Sorry, starting to complain. God lesson above. Thanks 

Ukulelemike,

King Hezekiah is a good example to all those directly involved in the minstry of the Lord. Your thoughts on Hezekiah and the problems that arose, and those who openly mocked him, is a good lesson for all of us and is a welcomed addition to the devotion. 

Our dedication to the Lord, and to His work, is a spiritual battle and we should keep our eyes on what is right and not what the world, backslid saints, and others think about it. In spite of what others are doing, and in spite of what others may do to the work that Lord has us to do after we are gone, we need to be faithful. 1 corinthians 4:2, "Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful."

The Kings that followed King Hezekiah and led the nation of Israel into idolatry is likened to what Paul said in Acts 20:29, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." False prophets, false teachers, and backslid saints with their own agenda and fleshly lusts, attempt to destroy the work of the Lord. You are correct, maintianing a good church is as hard as starting a good church.

Thanks!

Alan

Alan,

When I still lived and worked in Alaska I had the privilege to meet and work with a Chinese man who became a good friend. We both worked for a scientific research facility. He was a Plasma and Atomic scientist from Beijing. His name was Chung Wu.

He did not speak english well and we quickly made a deal for me to teach him English and him to teach me Chinese. The result was 50/50 he learned English and I did not learn Chinese. lol I still retain three words of Chinese, but that's about it, it is a difficult language to learn, at least for me.

He had never driven a motor vehicle, only rode a bike in China. So I also taught him to drive, which made him very happy.

We became fast friends with me inviting him to dinner at my house where we usually had language lessons after dinner. When he learned that I attended church he became interested and began to attend with me. We had many opportunities to talk about The Lord in private also. I believe he came to know The Lord at that time. He never actually gave a testimony to that fact, but he did show evidence of being saved in that he developed a burning desire to take his newfound Christianity back home to his people when he returned home. We had many private Bible studies together.

Unfortunately shortly after he had to return to Beijing he passed away. I believe he is now with The Lord. He was a dear friend and I sorely miss him, but rejoice in his conversion and enthusiasm for spiritual things. I thank The Lord often for putting Chung Wu in my life and the opportunities we shared.

On 5/26/2016 at 4:13 PM, Ukulelemike said:

Good post and timely.

Sunday I am preaching a lesson on Hezekiah, particularly when he opened the doors of the temple, and called on Judah and Manasseh and the others of the southern kingdom to come to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover, and to humble themselves before the Lord, after 16 years of his wicked father building up paganism and idolatry. And how, even though it was the command of the king to do that which God commanded, yet many who read the message mocked and scorned the very idea. I will bring this around to how many good, godly churches, teaching the truth of God and just wanting to Honor and obey Him, are often more and more emptying out, as people become 'seekers' seeking entertainment, and distraction and programs.

We have grown pretty small, and inevitable, someone looks around and says, "Is this all today?" It can be discouraging, but my point it, right is still right, and even a minority of people doing God's will, is still the right thing to do, and with the Lord, we are never the minority, and we WILL be blessed if we continue to do well, though so few might want to.

Building a church is tough-so is maintaining it. Solomon built the temple, and later kings kept shutting it down and turning the people to idolatry, and then another king would have to start from scratch. I'm celebrating 14 years as pastor and we are running about 7 right now. One person is a mess-he wants to raise his hands during prayer, just to do it because someone, sometime, ONE time said to him that it was what Christians do in church. Now, last Sunday, during a song, he put his book down and laid prostrate on the floor until the song was over. Apparently he saw or heard something about that. And of course, we had a guest family, who I suspect we won't see again. And while it is a small disturbance, it's not really anything WRONG I can point to, but I suspect he doesn't help anyone want to be here. Not like open sin or rebellion that I can send him out for.

Sorry, starting to complain. God lesson above. Thanks 

Bro. Mike, your church may be small, but when I came to preach for you it was very evident that the few that you had were attentive and interested in Spiritual things. Small towns tend to produce small churches since there are not many people to draw from, but I am sure you know that by now. Keep up the good work brother and know that your rewards will be proportionate to your efforts, which efforts are commendable in your little section of the country.

God bless you as you serve Him.

Jim,

Thank you for giving us the experience with Chung Wu. I am sure that he was blessed with your conversations. In eternity we will see the fruits.

Thank you also for not only encouraging Bro. Mike but all of the rest of us.

Alan

P.S.

After finishing the above comment I read todays Lighthouse Trails booklet called, "Remaining Faithful Through it All." I think is appropriate to include a small portion of the booklet in this comment. Here is part of the that article:

We Are to be Faithful in Even the Least of Things
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man’s, who shall give you that which is your own? (Luke 16:10-12)

His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. (Matthew 25:23)

Alan

15 hours ago, Alan said:

Jim,

Thank you for giving us the experience with Chung Wu. I am sure that he was blessed with your conversations. In eternity we will see the fruits.

Thank you also for not only encouraging Bro. Mike but all of the rest of us.

Alan

Bro. Alan,

You are to be commended for not correcting my misspelling/pronouncement of my friend's name. I only thought of this after I wrote about it. I spelled his name the way it is pronounced and actually the reverse from Chinese culture. It should have read Wu Cheng.

At least I did remember that part of our Chinese language lessons. Family name first, personal name second. 

Shadowfeathers,

I am glad to know that the devotion was a blessing to you.

Alan

Thank you for your fine devotion

Hi Brother Alan,

Thank you for the devotion.  

There are some questions I have towards the application for church building.

Wouldn't you say that exclusivity has a way of interfering with building the church?  Granted, that one should keep out heresey by citing the truths that the particular church agrees on, but if there is no rapport, then how does one lead another to agreeing with the truths that the congregation agrees on?  Of course, a one on one meeting with the pastor is necessary to avoid interruptions in the church services & even Bible studies in building that rapport & learning process, but yet an outreach is required also for church building.  

As it is, most visitors are content to not ask questions to avoid looking like a novice or looking like one trying to make waves even.  How does one church build that believer?  By leaving slips of paper for them to ask questions on and hand it in anonymously when the collection plate passes & the pastor or elders will try to answer the questions that Sunday or next Sunday if research is required?

Also, I would think that a forum should be open to church building to non-members of Independent Baptists.  Like the topic on Revelations;  why Independent Baptists only?  Granted, having responses from everybody that are "likeminded" does help cut down the responses that may veer off topic, but I would think the forum should allow you to post a duplicate thread in that part of the forum for non-Independent Baptists to reply to with Independent Baptists members also sharing their relevant replies to that duplicate thread to practice church building in outreach, but generally, such a duty seems off putting.

Maybe the forum should find a way to have a caption underneath members name & avatar to signify when a Independent Baptist Member is replying or just a christian?  That way, one can avoid confusion by the replies.

I agree with your appeal to church building, but I wonder in application, if exclusivity has a way of getting in the way of that? 

I even wonder about how the churches are addressed in Revelations by the city they are in.  Even Thyatira was addressed, but also exposed the notion that not all believers were meeting in the same place in that city as not all followed after that errant doctrine & practice of what the majority of the believers were doing in that city.

I do not know how a forum can church build me, a fellow believer, if exclusivity prevents me from joining in on your studies in Revelations just because I am not an Independent Baptist yet.  I have yet to discern what that actually mean since I have come across "Baptists" elsewhere that are more Pentecostal in nature & practice.

Anyway, I think the exclusivity of membership in churches & forums has a way of preventing church building.  I am not sure how that can be resolved, if at all, but there it is.

Shadowfeathers,

I am very happy that the devotion was a blessing to you.

Golgotha,

Thank you for your comments and letting me knw that the devotion was a blessing to you.

Some very interesting questions. At this time I just have a few moments I can spend online. I will try and discuss your post more tomorrow. Some of your points are due to the policy of OnLine Baptist, so, I may not be able to say much on the aspects of policy.

Glad to hear from you.

Alan

Hello Brother,

Hope all is well with you. I will somewhat answer your questions in a hesitant manner as some of the questions, in my thinking; have to deal with matters that are not primarily connected with the devotion.

In the devotion, “Four Principles in Church building,” the message was primarily directed to encourage those active in church building and not necessarily dealing with the subject of exclusivity. So, I will answer your questions in a broad manner.

So, I am of the opinion that some of the issues you addressed may be better handled in a different thread, (or lesson), for that particular subject. You may start your own quesitons under the forum, "The Bible and Christianity/Biblcal Issues/Questions for Baptists."

In my discussion, I will adhere to the definition of ‘exclusive’ as defined in, “The American Heritage Dictionary.”

           1. Not divided or shared with others.

          2. Excluding, or tending to exclude.

Very briefly, as you mentioned, sometimes exclusivity does sometimes interfere with building a church. We need to remember that the Lord Jesus is the head of the church, the pastor is his under-shepherd, and the scriptures is our guide.

As you mentioned, one of his primary functions of the pastor is to denounce heresy and keep the church pure from heretical doctrines. One of the qualifications of a pastor is to warn against the false prophets and teachers. Study 2 Peter 2. At the same time, build the church.

So, the pastor must be selective on whom he allows to teach, be a deacon, or any other public function in the church. The office of the pastor is very exclusive: please see the qualifications listed in 1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:7-9 and 1 Peter 5:1-4 This is why I mentioned the, “A Polite Reminder,” my devotion.

Also, Paul the Apostle routinely preached holiness and separation in the life of the members of the churches that he started. In fact, Paul told the elders of the church at Corinth (which he started), to get rid of the unholy members of the church: 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 Study Galatians 5:5-12, Colossians 3:8 & 9 and 1 Timothy 1:19 & 20

As to your questions concerning having a forum to non-Baptists that deal with issues such as church building, Revelation (or prophecy subjects); I am sure that there are such forums with different policies. If you have any policy questions OnLine Baptist and how they handle non-members, or non- Independent Baptists, I would suggest you contact Matt.

The study that I invited you on, “Revelation Bible Study,” is a continuation of a previous study, “Revelation chapter 19-22 Study,” that I had previously led. Here is the link to that thread: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=1

You can read that thread, but, because it is now “locked,” nobody can comment.

The current “Revelation Bible Study,” is covering items not fully developed in the, “Revelation chapter 19-22 Study.” If you want to ask a moderator to move the current, “Revelation Bible Study,” thread to the, “The Bible and Christianity – End Times/Bible Prophecy,” thread so you (and others), can comment, they I would whole-heartedly agree with that move. I do not want to be in any way exclusive in any of my threads.

I am glad to hear that you have seen the error of the Pentecostal Movement. I have heard of some Baptist churches align with that erroneous belief, but, in the Independent, Fundamental, Baptist churches that I have been a member of, or visited, I have not noticed this problem, nor some of the other erroneous doctrinal problems in our age.

Golgotha, I have four suggestions. That you find a good Independent, Fundamental, Baptist church and join it, listen to some of the brethren here on OnLine Baptist as they discuss the issues, start your own thread (or lesson), on subjects that are on your mind.

It is my personal hope that you will continue to read, and comment, on any of my other devotions.

Your Friend,

Alan

Brethren,

I do hope that the hymn, "Make Me A Blessing," will encourage you in your walk with Christ.

May God bless you all.

Alan

Thanks for replying Brother Alan,

"Golgotha, I have four suggestions. That you find a good Independent, Fundamental, Baptist church and join it, listen to some of the brethren here on OnLine Baptist as they discuss the issues, start your own thread (or lesson), on subjects that are on your mind." ~ Alan

Thanks for the suggestions, Alan.  I may respond as Christ leads me to.

Brethren,

I do hope that the attached photo is a blessing to you.

Peacock Flower, Yellow

The photo is not copyrighted. It is my hope that you may be able to use it remind yourself of the wonders and beauty of God's creation.

God Bless.

Alan