Calvinism is an incorrect understanding of soteriology

[SGO]

And you

hath he quickened,

who were dead

in trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2:1

 

I was dead asleep and walking to Jesus.

Nothing there sounding odd to you?

[Jerry]

Physical death is not the same thing as spiritual death. If it was, then you wouldn't even be a sinner because a physically dead person cannot do anything, not even sin. Spiritual death means separation from God - not unresponsiveness or unconsciousness.

[SGO]

 

Doesn't dead mean dead?

Doesn't dead equal no life?

"Spiritual death means separation from God - not unresponsiveness or unconsciousness."

 

If one is separate from the life of God, one is spiritually dead.

How can one be conscious or responsive if dead?

 

"That at that time ye were without Christ...

...having no hope and without God in the world:"

Ephesians 2:12

 

Dead in the spirit means dead doesn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry]

Your opinion doesn’t fit what the Bible says. You can bring your Calvinistic ideas into a discussion, but it doesn’t make it true.

A response is needed:

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Again:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Again:

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Again, a choice:

1 Kings 18:21
And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Again:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Again:

1 John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Again:

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Again, a personal response and choice to believe is needed:

Romans 10:9-13
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[BrotherTony]

10 hours ago, SGO said:

 

Doesn't dead mean dead?

Doesn't dead equal no life?

"Spiritual death means separation from God - not unresponsiveness or unconsciousness."

 

If one is separate from the life of God, one is spiritually dead.

How can one be conscious or responsive if dead?

 

"That at that time ye were without Christ...

...having no hope and without God in the world:"

Ephesians 2:12

 

Dead in the spirit means dead doesn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

Calvinists always seem to try this tripe trying to make "spiritual death", ie, spiritual separation from God, mean the same thing as physical death...not even comparable. Spiritual separation from God, or "spiritually dead" isn't anywhere near the same. Salvation, even in the Calvinist ideology, requires a decision...but, of course, through the 

In the Calvinist interpretation, we find that this decision has already been made for the participant "from before the foundation of the world." This isn't a "decision" but a forceful bringing into Christianity. It negates over 50% of Scripture concerning salvation. 

[SGO]

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:13

 

I guess that you mentioned above is not you.

 

You were DEAD.

Made ALIVE by Christ alone.

 

[BrotherTony]

On 4/11/2024 at 11:59 AM, SGO said:

And you

hath he quickened,

who were dead

in trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2:1

 

I was dead asleep and walking to Jesus.

Nothing there sounding odd to you?

It's always funny to me how Calvinists always try to compare physical to spiritual and make the two the same in practice. 

[Jerry]

I was made alive - quickened, regenerated - the moment I turned in faith to the Lord Jesus Christ. I was not regenerated first so I could believe. The conviction or sin and the enlightenment to understand the Gospel came first, then came repentance and faith on my part, then the Holy Spirit quickened and indwelt me. That is the Biblical order. Regeneration first so you can respond and be born again (which is the same as being regenerated) is a doctrine from the pit of Hell.

[SGO]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is,

when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God:

and they that hear shall live.

John 5:25

 

You heard while you were alive so you had a real part in your salvation.

 

Which were born,

not  of blood,

nor of the will of the flesh,

nor of the will of man,

but of God.

John 1:13

 

Not by your will.

Edited April 12 by SGO

[Jerry]

You're right - no one can will to be regenerated. But we certainly can respond positively to God's offer of salvation, then HE regenerates us (NOT BEFORE).

To be blunt, how do YOU know you ARE saved if you never responded to the Lord Jesus Christ nor received His gift of salvation, nor personally trusted in His finished work? Sounds like you might still be unsaved. The Bible teaches we can KNOW.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Pity the poor person who has no assurance of personal faith or salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ because they never made a choice of their own. We don't find anywhere in the Bible that God forces people to be saved, nor regenerates them against their will.

Edited April 12 by Jerry
clarification

[SGO]

(For the children

being not yet born,

neither having done any good or evil,

that the purpose of God according to election might stand,

not of works,

but of him that calleth;)

 

So then it is not of him that willeth,

nor of him that runneth,

but of God that sheweth mercy,

 

Romans 9:11,16

 

Your will not involved by yourself.

 

For it is God

which worketh in you

both to will

and to do his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13

 

... how unsearchable are his judgements,

and his ways past finding out.

Romans 11:33b

 

How arrogant for a Christian to think there are no mysteries with God.

 

Or despisest thou 

the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;

not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Romans 2:4

[Jerry]

How arrogant to think that you - a Calvinist - have everything right and can come here and tell non-Calvinists how wrong they are.

Romans 9 is dealing with nations, not individuals.

[SGO]

So, for you, God has no mysteries.

 

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,

which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Even us,

whom he hath called,

not of the Jews only,

but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 9:23-24

 

[BrotherTony]

1 minute ago, SGO said:

So, for you, God has no mysteries.

 

1 minute ago, SGO said:

 

This is a typical Calvinist accusation. Nowhere have Jerry or I either one stated this. These kinds of straw man arguments don't help your position. 

[Jerry]

There are multiple mysteries in the New Testament. These were all truths not revealed in OT times, but revealed clearly in the New Testament. Calvinism is not one of them.