Pastor’S Salary Cap

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I have had the senior pastorate in two separate Churches over an eight year span. Not once did I require a salary. Matter of fact, a salary was suggested in my first congregation and I refused it because the Word of God states the pastor should work.

How many members did I have. At one time nearly 160. That is, until I found out that one member was living with a man outside of marriage. This member wanted to sing a solo practically every service. Her favorite song to sing? "Victory in Jesus"

When I told her I could not allow her to stand behind the pulpit and sing, knowing her lifestyle, she got mad and left the Church. Nearly half the Church left with her. Apparently, they liked her singing better than the truth.

*edited to add: In those eight years, I did receive love offerings when the congregation offered them... but no salary as it is unBiblical.

[Anon]

What was Timothy's profession? What did Paul do when he was not able to do tentmaking? You realize he only did tentmaking while he was at ONE church for several years, right?

I have no problem with you feeling called of God not to accept a salary. But you stating that pastor's are unBiblical if they accept a salary is unBiblical in and of itself, I'm sorry to say. You are basing an entire doctrine on what Paul did for a few short years. He was not always able to work, and when he wasn't working an "outside job", the church was taking care of him.

Churches have different methods of "taking care" of a pastor. Whether you want to call it a "salary" or "regular planned love offerings" the end result is the same.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

As to what type of work I did, I worked several jobs as the doors were opened.  I have worked with asphalt companies,androofing companies early on, and computer manufacturing and sales with CYC, Inc. of Greensboro, NC  two years of my second pastorate and an additional two years following that pastorate..

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Where does the Bible say that Paul only worked as a tentmaker once?  Historical and Biblical research will tell you that that can't be true.  Paul said if one does not work, he should not eat.  Do you really believe Paul would not have practiced what he preached? 

Paul said he worked to support himself and those in his company.  He said he did this as an example, showing that so laboring the Elders also should work to provide for others.  To say a pastor should not work a secular job is contrary to the clear instruction in the Word of God.

[Steve Schwenke]

Some Pastors are under paid and some are overpaid. How and what standers should be considered, how many members the church haves. How can you stop a Pastor demanding more money every year, or he himself getting a raise.  I am the Boss?   

Well, brother, you are correct.  Some ARE overpaid.  They have a nice comfortable salary, plus housing, car, clothing, free babysitting, cell phone, and just about anything else they want.  When you add in all the extra's, some of these guys are making well over 100K a year, when many in their congregation are struggling to make ends meet.  I know the ministry is work - but sometimes the salaries and perks get out of hand.

Some ARE underpaid.  Sometimes the church gets stingy with the preacher.  They don't realize how much work, energy, effort it takes to lead the church.  Especially when you consider that the most important work the pastor does is study and pray (Acts 6).  The sad thing is that they don't seem to realize that the people they are hurting the most is NOT the pastor and his family, but rather the congregation itself.  The church cannot grow properly if the pastor cannot lead them effectively, nor can the church grow properly if they do not act IN FAITH, and provide proper maintenance for their pastor.

 

The problem I believe is that the congregation

themselves to be misled by the pastors (scenario #1) or the elders (deacons or whomever - scenario #2).  I hesitate to assign motive to scenario #1, even though it would be easy to say it is greediness - sometimes it is not greed, simply naivete about the conditions of their congregation. 

Scenario #2 is power and control - plain and simple - as well as disobedience to Scripture.

 

The solution? HA!  I don't think there is one.  Of course the congregation can always vote NO on the raises, or modify the raise, or something - but then that sends bad signals to the pastor. 

 

I agree with what someone else said earlier - the church should determine what the salary should be based upon church income, membership, and the liveable wages in that area.  If it is a small church, the pastor should be the #1 expense until they can afford to pay him full time and get their own building. 

[Steve Schwenke]

I think the most important Scriptural fact to consider in this whole equation is that the church that had the MOST problems in the NT (Corinth) was coincidentally the same place where Paul refused to take any "salary" from that church, and instead "made tents." 

 

If SFIC insists upon misinterpreting the Acts 20:34-35 passage (making "labor" secular work instead of the labor of the ministry), then the result is the same.  Ephesus became a "dead church" in Revelation 2 who kept serving, but lost their love for Christ.  Again, if you are correct, I wonder if there is not a correlation between Paul's divided interests (secular work distracting him from the work of the ministry) and the outcome of it (a church with no love for Christ.)

 

HHHHMMMMM - could there be a connection?

 

I know from having to work a secular job also that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to do ANYTHING properly when you are pastoring and working.  The man cannot properly take care of the needs of his family (time and emotional needs, etc.), he cannot properly take care of the needs of the church through prayer and study, and he is not always available to help them in their times of distress.  They are SHEEP - not cattle - and as such need much time, comfort, and counsel.

Further, he does not have time or money to properly maintain his vehicles or house, or take vacations, or do all the things everyone else in his church does. 

I am not complaining - I am simply trying to press the realities home.  And eventually, the pastor ends up completely burned out, and has to either stop working the secular job, or stop pastoring.   Some people do have physical limitations, and can only go so long burning the candle at both ends (and in the middle!)

 

In the end EVERYONE LOSES - the church, the pastor, and the pastor's family.

Therefore, it is in everyone's best interest to provide as much maintenance for the pastor as possible (for the small church), and a reasonable income for the larger churches (not an outrageous income with perks.)

 

I Corinthians 9, I Timothy 5:17-18 seem to be the key passages - in my opinion.

 

IN Christ,

[Steve Schwenke]

This topic is going to irritate me, since we basically live paycheck to paycheck AND I have to work a job to help make ends meet.

We have four kids and live in a parsonage and have our utilities paid, plus a salary, but the salary is definitely low enough to qualify for food stamps (although we are not on food stamps). We pay our own cell phone and most of our own gas, and bought our own cars, and pay for our own internet, etc. We also pay for Christian school.

If a church can pay a pastor enough to have a savings account and a retirement and live as comfortable as his people, then more power to that church. Amen. AMEN!!!!!

And to those who think pastors do not work to earn their salary....well I am going to leave the topic before I blow up on that one.

Honestly and frankly, what I wouldn't give some days for my husband and myself to be OUT of the ministry. Perks? Choose a church of your own choosing. Choose the ministries you are comfy with. And find a job that pays you enough to support your family that matches your talents and skills. But we are IN the ministry because God called us....and when people say things like "Pastors should work" or "Pastors are overpaid" it just makes me ANGRY.

I had my sister in law who makes six figures a year tell me it must be nice that I have a free house and utilities paid. REALLY? She'd really like to live in my parsonage from 1940 that needs tons of work that nobody can afford to do right now? She'd really like to have my bank account with little more than $100-$200 in it at any one given time?

Yeah. People who grudge pastors and their families for the sacrifices they make REALLY get me annoyed. And I'm cranky today so that makes it worse. hahaha.

I will say God provides for us and I'm thankful for it. But most people who criticize pastors would NEVER want to trade places with their family if they had to walk in their shoes and in their budget for a month. Nope.

(Oh, and yes, we generously give to our church as a good example...most likely we give a larger percentage of our income than anyone in the church, although we have never looked at the record books to find out.)

God bless you and your husband as you labor for the Lord.  THere are many others just like you (for instance ME!!!) in the same position.  Thank God for the Grace He gives to carry on the work!

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I'm not misinterpreting Scripture at all Steve. 

It is obviously you who are either misinterpreting Scripture, or just ignoring its instruction altogether. 

*edited to add: Matter of fact, since Revelation does not say that Ephesus became a "dead" church, I know it is you who is doing the "misinterpreting."

[Anon]

StandingFIrm, the main issue here is that you, somehow, do not consider the Pastor's work as "work". Maybe you did not work as a pastor, but the pastors who I know, they do work. And the larger the ministry, the more hours they work. As a matter of fact, one of the biggest problems in ministry is that the pastor sometimes works SO many hours for the church that he neglects his family!

So I cannot understand where you get your idea of being a pastor doesn't count as "work". "Not working" means "being idle" and while I'm sure there are some idle pastors out there, I wasn't aware this thread was referring to any.

[Anon]

I wanted to add that I don't know any IFB churches that give the pastor an "outrageous" income. I think a "comfortable" income is more than fair for an older, experienced, educated, godly man. As far as an IFB pastor who is "rich"....I may only know a few, and in general they are rich because they are pastors and also presidents of Bible colleges. But as far as just regular old churches...unless the actual church is full of rich people (in which case no fair making the pastor a pauper)....I think an "overpaid pastor" is more often a straw man than not.

To me an "overpaid" pastor are like those tv ministries and scam ministries...but to me those don't count because I thought we were talking about IFB ministries.

[wretched]

I have had the senior pastorate in two separate Churches over an eight year span. Not once did I require a salary. Matter of fact, a salary was suggested in my first congregation and I refused it because the Word of God states the pastor should work.

How many members did I have. At one time nearly 160. That is, until I found out that one member was living with a man outside of marriage. This member wanted to sing a solo practically every service. Her favorite song to sing? "Victory in Jesus"

When I told her I could not allow her to stand behind the pulpit and sing, knowing her lifestyle, she got mad and left the Church. Nearly half the Church left with her. Apparently, they liked her singing better than the truth.

*edited to add: In those eight years, I did receive love offerings when the congregation offered them... but no salary as it is unBiblical.

 

Sorry guy but I don't buy this for a second. Sure, you may have been the leader of a handful of splinter families you duped away from a solid church to start one in a garage somewhere that fizzled. No doubt over your outward rebellion to a real pastor's salary or tithing (lets face it, the real issue is just not giving at all) or babies in hell or some other whacky idea you think you originally got Divine insight to, to undermine a ministry.

 

Anybody can work a secular job, that takes no faith at all. God's men and families have no social or union safeguards whatsoever and are truly dependent on the Lord to provide and it is every congregation's charge to obey the Lord and take care of those men and their families period. That is what the Word says, not your made up nonsense. Every single true pastor you have ever met was sent by other churches so your "stationary" misinterpretations that you claim as doctrine are just as wrong as your other misinterpretations.

For the record, causing a church split over vain babbling does not count as "being sent" so you are right about not receiving a salary yourself.

 

Besides, haven't you claimed to be disabled to receive government checks. That don't even take work much less faith so why are you even talking on this thread.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

You have a right to your opinion... Even though it is wrong

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Both the Churches I pastored are still operating... They did not start in any garage, nor did I dupe anyone out of solid Churches.

Your attacks are untrue, wretched. Grow up.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

You guys can't prove me wrong using Scripture, so as usual... you attack my character.  Typical.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

As to what I am drawing from Social Security, it is based on what I put in when I worked.  I am not pastoring now, but if the Lord ever lays it on my heart to pastor again, I will once again take up the work I last did... building and selling PC's.