Some Bibles create FAITH - others DOUBT: David W. Daniels

[LindaR]

Short and to the point!

I would also recommend David W. Daniels' book "Look What's Missing" which is published by Chick Publications.

[Guest]

Yes, I agree...good video. You know what, I would prefer all were as I enjoying and learning from the KJV. I'm sorry to report they are not using the KJV and many times I doubt they hear about "the Gospel of Jesus Christ." So, when I find them I teach them what my KJV says about salvation, filling in the blanks they have in there MEV. If they tarry with me and want to know more about Jesus Christ, I show them from my KJV. However, most are in a hurry. So, what can I do, I've given the Gospel of Jesus Christ by utterance and they go on there way. If I had the opportunity to meet them again at some future time I might get into a discussion about the KJV and their version, but that isn't likely to happen. How can I make sure they get out of the MEVs? I can't. How can I be sure they received Christ as their Lord and Savior? I can't. The Holy Spirit has to be trusted to take care of their salvation and their desire to know Christ more intimately.

If I pointed someone to Christ and they agreed to meet me again; I would teach from my KJV. Sooner or later they will ask me why I use the KJV. Then is when version discussion makes sense. For me to say, you have a version other than I use and you can't be saved as a result is utterly absurd. You see my Bible teaches me that we are priests and teachers and that as such we're responsible for sharing the Gospel message. To just walk away and leave that person to a possible catastrophe and die without Christ, just because they have a MEV, is sinful and I would answer for it.

I was really pressed to even reply to this thread but, you tossed it out there. I don't intend to offend. I have one question, can you show someone they're lost spiritually by using the MEVs?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

A person can show someone that they are unsaved using the modern versions, yes. For instance,

Today's English Version
everyone has sinned and is far away from God’s saving presence (Romans 3:23 TEV)

And these versions seem to give the answer:
They answered, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your family (Acts 16:31 TEV)

The problem?

Which Jesus are many MEV's telling the reader to believe in?

A Jesus that is a liar:

You go on to the festival. I am not going to this festival, because the right time has not come for me.”
He said this and then stayed on in Galilee.
Jesus at the Festival of Shelters <a name="12">
After his brothers had gone to the festival, Jesus also went; however, he did not go openly, but secretly. (John 7:8-10 TEV)

A Jesus that will stand before God in Judgment:
now I tell you: if you are angry with your brother you will be brought to trial, if you call your brother ‘You good-for-nothing!’ you will be brought before the Council, and if you call your brother a worthless fool you will be in danger of going to the fire of hell. (Matthew 5:22 TEV)

Clearly, the Jesus that is testified of in many MEV's is not the Jesus that saves a lost person.

One cannot point someone toward a false Christ using a translation that presents a sinful Christ.

If you were looking for a Car Dealership that sold Nissan's, and I pointed you to a Dealership that sold Chevrolet's, you would not find what you needed by going the direction I was pointing.

And no, I am not teaching, nor embracing heresy before I am accused of such again.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ

[LindaR]

Yes, I agree...good video. You know what, I would prefer all were as I enjoying and learning from the KJV. I'm sorry to report they are not using the KJV and many times I doubt they hear about "the Gospel of Jesus Christ." So, when I find them I teach them what my KJV says about salvation, filling in the blanks they have in there MEV. If they tarry with me and want to know more about Jesus Christ, I show them from my KJV. However, most are in a hurry. So, what can I do, I've given the Gospel of Jesus Christ by utterance and they go on there way. If I had the opportunity to meet them again at some future time I might get into a discussion about the KJV and their version, but that isn't likely to happen. How can I make sure they get out of the MEVs? I can't. How can I be sure they received Christ as their Lord and Savior? I can't. The Holy Spirit has to be trusted to take care of their salvation and their desire to know Christ more intimately.

If I pointed someone to Christ and they agreed to meet me again; I would teach from my KJV. Sooner or later they will ask me why I use the KJV. Then is when version discussion makes sense. For me to say, you have a version other than I use and you can't be saved as a result is utterly absurd. You see my Bible teaches me that we are priests and teachers and that as such we're responsible for sharing the Gospel message. To just walk away and leave that person to a possible catastrophe and die without Christ, just because they have a MEV, is sinful and I would answer for it.

I was really pressed to even reply to this thread but, you tossed it out there. I don't intend to offend. I have one question, can you show someone they're lost spiritually by using the MEVs?

Just because I tossed it out there doesn't mean I forced anyone to reply.

Any version can show that a person is lost, but any version will not point them to the Christ Who saves. As David Daniels states in the video, those Alexandrian versions will cause "doubt about the way of salvation". Why would another version (other than the KJB or any other translation which is translated from the Antiochan text) cause this doubt about the way of salvation? They are both Bibles, aren't they? Could it be that those other (Alexandrian) versions remove words and verses, and water down basic Biblical doctrine about the Christ Who saves?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Let me ask this question, and think about it before you answer quickly...

Since many of the MEV's portray Jesus as being a liar, and worthy of judgment, how can those translations point to the true Jesus when the Word of God asks these questions?

Romans 10:14-15 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

How can one believe on the true Jesus when the one being testified of is a liar and worthy of judgment? They have not heard of the true Jesus at all, so it is impossible for them to call on Him of whom they have not heard.

[Brother Rick]

Just couldn't let it go?

Copy and paste from another thread....




This is blatant heresy and I'm surprised an admin hasn't struck it down yet.

SFIC is adding an additional requirement to salvation that is not found anywhere in the Scriptures. He has tried to be reasoned with, but he is too stubborn to listen. He has tried to make the case that because there are grievous errors in the modern versions when they speak of Christ that the gospel message in them point to a false Christ.

He has stubbornly ignored the following facts:

1. To say that modern Bibles point to a false, sinful Christ across the board is incorrect. There are plenty of clear-cut passages in modern versions that portray Christ as the sinless Son of God, and that salvation is to be received by grace through faith in the atonement of Christ. As one brother pointed out, an error about Jesus in one portion of a modern version does not negate the many other places where the version gets it right, just like writing "the Devil is a good guy" in the back of a KJB doesn't negate the potential power of the KJB when put into use. A modern version is in that sense no different than a gospel tract. The tract is not inspired, it is not the word of God, it may contain parts of the word of God, but most importantly it may be used to lead others to Christ.

2. God has used imperfect instruments in the past and still does. God used a womanizer (Samson), a donkey (Balam's), an egomaniac (Saul), a hooker (Rahab), and a murderer (David). God used them and many more, and many times God in His grace has used imperfect people while in a backslidden condition. Why? Because He's a gracious and merciful God and He understands that we are but dust. God uses imperfect instruments all the time, including imperfect Bibles.

3. Salvation is in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and that gospel gives no limits as to how to communicate it. Many people were saved after watching The Passion of the Christ, regardless of the fact that Mel Gibson is a sleazy Catholic. There are preferred ways to give out the gospel, and we should always strive for the best, but we cannot limit God. To say that the modern versions point to a false Christ in some areas so no one can be saved out of them at all would also mean that Charismatics, Nazarenes, and Calvinists can't ever lead someone to the Lord either because they are off on a few things about God.

4. To say that one must be saved out of a KJB is adding an additional requirement to salvation and is akin to mixing faith with works. If nothing else, it is Pharisaical and elitist, and it reeks of "us four and no more." Jesus rebuked this kind of thinking when He said, "for he that is not against us is on our part," in Mark 9:40. To say that people that are packing NIVs or NKJVs are against us because their Bibles are tainted would only further demonstrate the ridiculousness of SFIC's position. In the past this brother has come out and said that if a person dies in a backslidden state they were never saved to begin with, which is right on down the line with the Calvinist position of "Perseverance of the Saints" and the Roman Catholic doctrine of dying in a "state of grace." SFIC has a pattern of trying to, while I'm sure inadvertently, mix faith with works when it comes to salvation and adding additional requirements that are not found in the Bible. Anyone can take a verse here and there and twist it to try and prove an idea that the weight of Scripture does not support, and that is exactly what is going on here.

5. The fruit and testimonies of multitudes of Christians across the globe prove this to be wrong. This is not the primary reason he is wrong, but it an important one. To say that one must be saved out of a King James Bible, and that anything else is a false conversion, would immediately negate the ministry and salvation of thousands of missionaries and Christians across the globe that are forced to use a corrupt version because there is no King James Bible in their language. SFIC's doctrine has suddenly destroyed their profession of faith, any fruit in their life, and any hope they have for Heaven. They are all bound for Hell because they do not have the perfect word of God in their language. Even here in America there are many Christians that love the same God the KJVOers love, and they pray to the same God, and they witness of the same Gospel and the same Jesus. I have firsthand knowledge and experience with people in this country and others that are very truly saved, but do not have or use a King James Bible. The fact that SFIC ignores this makes me wonder if he spends too much time in an ivory tower and not enough outside actually dealing with real people, because this point is abundantly clear to anyone with any common sense and spiritual discernment.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Rick Schworer

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Just wanted to add, I just received the email reply from David W Daniels, and it appears he has changed his position concerning one being saved using versions that stem from the Alexandrian texts tranlations.

I had presented the reason I believed one could not be saved using those translations, (along with Scripture as I did in post #3 in this thread) and he did not disagree at all, but rather told me "May God bless you as you read His preserved Words in English."

Mr. Daniels did not correct me on my stance, but rather applauded it.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Sorry Rick, but it is not heresy.

I have used a modern translation to show the false Christ that is being taught. And I used the KJV to show that one cannot call on the true Christ if one does not hear of the true Christ.

Those Alexandrian text translations do not present the true Christ and therefore it is impossible for one to call on Him of whom they have not heard.

[LindaR]

Rick,

Why is it so difficult for you to let this thing rest? There was no need to copy and paste your accusatory closing post from the thread you opened into this one that I started. Did you even listen to David Daniels' video?

[Brother Rick]

My system won't let me watch it, otherwise I certainly would.

Don't accuse me of "not letting it rest," when post #3 and #5 were the same subject before I copied and pasted my post.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Tell me, Rick...

How can one call on Him of whom they have not heard?

[Guest]

Tell me, Rick...

How can one call on Him of whom they have not heard?

Do you witness to anyone? Do you present Jesus Christ very God or some other Jesus Christ? Do you always have your Bible in your hand? How many people do you witness to that carry their MEV with them? If you did witness to someone who said they use the MEVs and you didn't have your Bible with you, would you tell them to go away and come again when you have your Bible?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Do you witness to anyone? Do you present Jesus Christ very God or some other Jesus Christ? Do you always have your Bible in your hand? How many people do you witness to that carry their MEV with them? If you did witness to someone who said they use the MEVs and you didn't have your Bible with you, would you tell them to go away and come again when you have your Bible?

Over the 30+ years that I have been saved, I have memorized enough of the Word of God to witness the Word of God to others.
If one has a MEV, and I am witnessing to them, I still witness Christ by using the Word of God that I have hid in my heart.

Many times, if they have a MEV, I will ask them to turn to Acts 8:37. (which, by the way, is missing from many of the MEV's) I then tell them why that verse is important., that it is important that one believe in Christ otherwise baptism is nothing more than getting wet. I will ask them to read 1 John 5:7,8 and then quote the verse as translated from the Antiochan text and explain to them how their version attacks the doctrine of the trinity in those verses.

I cannot witness to them the saving Christ using translations that stem from the Alexandrian if you paid me. Because the saving Christ s not in those Bibles.

edited to add: If one has to rely on anything that distorts God's Word to witness to the lost, that one would be best off not even trying to witness. We cannot win someone over to truth by presenting to them lies. Edited February 16, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Guest]

Over the 30+ years that I have been saved, I have memorized enough of the Word of God to witness the Word of God to others.
If one has a MEV, and I am witnessing to them, I still witness Christ by using the Word of God that I have hid in my heart.
Exactly what at least 3 people on here have been trying to get you to say...Amen. You aren't the only one who memorized scripture for the very purpose of telling them about Christ. However, sometimes we do paraphrase the memorized scriptures. God can still save these people and it isn't verbatim quotation of the KJV.
Many times, if they have a MEV, I will ask them to turn to Acts 8:37. (which, by the way, is missing from many of the MEV's) I then tell them why that verse is important., that it is important that one believe in Christ otherwise baptism is nothing more than getting wet. I will ask them to read 1 John 5:7,8 and then quote the verse as translated from the Antiochan text and explain to them how their version attacks the doctrine of the trinity in those verses.
When I posted in the other thread I used 4 scripture verses from the KJV which I use a great deal, along with Roman's road and quotations from John. However, age or whatever, I get some paraphrased but, I still faithfully contend for the faith as is common in the doctrinal statements of Baptists.
I cannot witness to them the saving Christ using translations that stem from the Alexandrian if you paid me. Because the saving Christ s not in those Bibles.
I can crack open their Bible and show them they have some truth in it and show them how to be saved from receiving and believing that truth. That doesn't mean I approve of their Bible and if anyone of them ever said but what about this (an error in MEV). I would say it is a mistranslation. It never has come up in a conversation. They tote those MEVs around and have no idea what is in them. Who would tell them, the pastor of their church, NO.
edited to add: If one has to rely on anything that distorts God's Word to witness to the lost, that one would be best off not even trying to witness. We cannot win someone over to truth by presenting to them lies.
You and I can distort the exactness of the word/s by paraphrasing but we do not distort the meaning and truth. We present the Jesus Christ who can save and them eternally, perfect man, perfect God.

I hope the red above makes sense...I'm tired.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

These MEV's that stem from the Alexandrian texts are not "paraphrases" of God's Word, though... they are an outright distortion of it. Fabrications made to sound appealing to the flesh, seeming to point to Christ.
But they point to the wrong christ.

Even a paraphrase of the KJV can be distorted where it does not agree with the truth. When it does, it is a lie. There is nothing wrong with paraphrasing if that paraphrase agrees with the truth.

For instance,

Our KJV states Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Now,. look at the verse in the TEV.

They answered, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your family (Acts 16:31 TEV)

They seem to be saying the same thing, right? In actuality, they don't say the same thing. Why not? Because the Jesus that TEV is saying to call on is not qualified to save man any more than a grasshopper is qualified to ride a bicycle.

Their Bible does not contain the truth, you keep forgetting that their Bible is testifying of a false Christ, not the saving one. When one adds lies to the truth, that truth is no more truth... it has become a lie. Really not hard to see, even this blind man can see it. If I was describing an accident that happened on Fifth and Main between a Jeep and a Mustang, and I told the police that the Corvet ran the stoplight and hit the dump truck, I would not be telling the truth, now would I? I would be describing something entirely different than the event that happened, and what I testified of would be a lie, even though the Jeep had ran the stop light and hit the Mustang. I attributed something that happened to an entirely different driver.

And that is what happens in the MEV's that stem from the Alexandrian text translations. They attribute a real event to a different entity.... making the truth a lie. No, one cannot testify truth from the corrupt translations.

The only truth that one can reveal to the lost is the fact that they are lost. All versions speak of the lost condition of man. But the corrupt version's answer to that lost estate? Believe on the Jesus of that Bible in order to be saved. And the Jesus of that Bible proves to be just as lost as those you are witnessing to. Those translations show a man that he is lost and offer no hope whatsoever.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ