Here we go...

[Anon]

Were you bringing any of the pagan beliefs into the church at all?

[Alumentum]

Were you bringing any of the pagan beliefs into the church at all?

Not that I know of. I went out of respect and just kinda sat in the back and waited for it to be over.

[Anon]

I see.

Well...I hope you can get alot of questions answered here. :-) If you have an open mind and really have the desire to understand more about God, then you will.

My extended family, some members have a history with paganism and etc so I know its real and its dangerous...so I hope you are able to find some answers.

[Brother Rick]

Ok, I think I'm starting to get the grasp of that. If I had to relate it to something in my beliefs it would be something like Vanir. Vanir is the creator of Vanahiemr, one of the 9 worlds. Vanir is one entity but, is made up of several personifications and they all work together to do the same tasks and represent the same things. Does that even make sense X /?

Yes it does. From what little I know about Paganism and mythology (I don't even know if the two can be placed in the same category, sorry), many of the stories from the Bible have been adapted into Pagan stories. Naturally, as a Christian, I'm going to believe these pagan stories are false.

II Peter 1:16, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty."

Hercules comes from the Biblical account of Samson, Satan is a dragon in Revelation 12 and there are plenty of dragons in pagan stories.

I'm not trying to attack you, just discussing. Let me ask you a couple of questions though:

1. Why do you believe in paganism?
2. What is the benefit of being pagan?
3. Do you have any empirical evidence that proves Pagan stories to be true?
4. Do you believe there is a Devil, or Satan, that exists?

[Alumentum]

Yes it does. From what little I know about Paganism and mythology (I don't even know if the two can be placed in the same category, sorry), many of the stories from the Bible have been adapted into Pagan stories. Naturally, as a Christian, I'm going to believe these pagan stories are false.

II Peter 1:16, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty."

Hercules comes from the Biblical account of Samson, Satan is a dragon in Revelation 12 and there are plenty of dragons in pagan stories.

I'm not trying to attack you, just discussing. Let me ask you a couple of questions though:

1. Why do you believe in paganism?
2. What is the benefit of being pagan?
3. Do you have any empirical evidence that proves Pagan stories to be true?
4. Do you believe there is a Devil, or Satan, that exists?

Wait...who is Satan X/ ?
And I don't mind questions, you've all put up with mine and I will gladly answer yours.

1.I believe in paganism(there are many forms of Paganism, I am Odinist as I've stated before) because that is the way I was raised. I haven't really been exposed to other religions until my adoption.

2.Some of the benefits of being an Odinist is how it makes you feel. The gods don't call on us to bow or to feel guilty about anything. They call on us to be brave and honorable and to do our best to do what is right. When I say 'do what is right' I mean do what truely is the right thing to do, not what I personally belive is right. The more you live up to the expectations of the gods the greater you afterlife will be.

3.I have no more evidence than you do really. We have books and proverbs and stories much like your own. I'm not familier with some of your stories but, one story we have is the story of the end of times. We call the end of days Ragnoark or the Last Battle. This is the finally battle between the gods, giants and the 9 worlds. In this battle all will be destroyed and the serpent Jormundgand will renew the Tree of life(which contains the 9 worlds) from the ashes.

4. We don't officially belive in the devil or Satan( I've never even heard of Satan). We do have gods that represent dishonorable things and gods who do bad things. One is Fenrir. Fenrir used to be a god but, he became a huge wolf that tried to devour humans. The god Tyr gave his arm so that the gods could bind the wolf until Ragnoark. When Ragnoark comes, Fenrir will get loose and devour Odin but, then be killed by Odin's son Vidar who is the god of vengence..

[Anon]

If you look through the Bible, you will see that most pagan, indian, or other religions come more or less from Biblical accounts and have been changed over the generations.

[John81]

Odin, even if he were real, couldn't be trusted, all of the gods are greatly flawed and filled with human weaknesses, including one who had sex with lessers in order to get her necklace back. Not to mention Loki who could make a wreck of anything and according to the ancient writings we know that even mighty Thor will fall dead.

The ancient Germanic/Norse gods couldn't even stand before the Catholic onslaught, let alone the One True God of the Bible. Not even an all out last ditch attempt to enlist Thor as protector could stave off the destruction, in battle, of the followers of the pagan Germanic/Norse gods.

There was very little concept of "doing right" in that religion. More to the point was "might makes right".

[Alumentum]

@Kitagirl

How can a pagen belief be based off of tales in the bible if the people who were pagen were never exposed to Christianity before the development of their beliefs.

@John81

You make a good point but, that's why I love my gods so much. Because they are like me. I don't feel guilt when I do wrong because they have also done wrong. However, they have also done the honorable and have set things right or are destined to. Thor could stave off anything if he wanted to in my mind. But He didn't, much like your God doesn't force you and every other non beliver to worship him(or so I've been told?). If God/Jesus were to come under the same attack, and a hundred years in the future someone was saying the same thing about Christians as you are to me, then how would that make you feel?

My beliefs aren't to be perfect and to let others take the fall for me. Mine are to be: honorable, brave, truthful, just. Much as my gods are. I know it's hard for you to grasp my beliefs but, I'm having the same troubles and I'm sorry if any of you take offense to me or what I say.

[Anon]

Because its passed down through generations....

For instance there are distant Indian tribes who have general beliefs of the Great Flood and other assorted Bible stories, but with their own religious flavor to the stories. This is because of course at one time it WAS only Noah...and slowly people spread out over the world. But the original people started with one original belief...and as generations passed, some people did not hold to those beliefs but would tell their children stories...and just as the children's game of "telephone" stories get distorted during the retelling....the true "stories" of the Bible have become distorted over thousands of years of history.

[Alumentum]

But, what makes my books and my beliefs stories and yours true? Isn't the bible a collection of stories written by, not one but, several men and has been passed down as well?(or did I read that wrong as well?)

My religion makes two references to a great flood but, I can't say much on this because I don't even know who Noah is. If you'd like, you can tell me about him and his story if I can tell mine? Were there not other religions before Christianity? I thought Judaism was but, I don't know anything on that either. I'm also pretty sure Romanism was before them as well but, again I'm not Romanist. How can a culture be influenced by one that has not been born before it?

I've also noticed in your later post that Paganism is dangerous. There are many religions that are considered Pagen but, I see no danger in my beliefs in Odinism.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Alumentum

[Anon]

Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

If one cannot accept that, one has no foundation on which to learn anything else.

[Alumentum]

Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

If one cannot accept that, one has no foundation on which to learn anything else.

I'm trying to accept that, believe me I am. You have to realize though, I am potentially going to give up all that I am for what you believe. I want to know that I'm not going to be blinded into becomeing someone who I am not. How do I know that I'm not just going to be persecuted even more for trying this?

Anyways, I have a bible in front of me and I'm going to start reading it from the beginning. So for first road block I should say, is 'the beginning' the beginning of time and everything? Is heaven one place? What does it mean by Earth?(the planet, the universe, the world of Earth as we live in it making Heaven an completely different world?) And I already have learned that he did so because he wanted the fellowship of his kind in other forms correct?

[CPR]

I'm trying to accept that, believe me I am. You have to realize though, I am potentially going to give up all that I am for what you believe. I want to know that I'm not going to be blinded into becomeing someone who I am not. How do I know that I'm not just going to be persecuted even more for trying this?

Anyways, I have a bible in front of me and I'm going to start reading it from the beginning. So for first road block I should say, is 'the beginning' the beginning of time and everything? Is heaven one place? What does it mean by Earth?(the planet, the universe, the world of Earth as we live in it making Heaven an completely different world?) And I already have learned that he did so because he wanted the fellowship of his kind in other forms correct?

Just take your time, be patient, and keep asking questions. I think it's hard sometimes for people who have known nothing other than Christianity (myself included) to explain it to someone who has no foundation. I've read the previous posts and I know it's hard to understand so kudos for sticking with it when it's confusing. Here's something that I would suggest. I'm not sure what your relationship is like with your parents, but from what you've said it seems to be pretty good (apologies if I'm incorrect). Have you talked to them about your interest? They would prOBably be able to have a more prolonged dialogue with you than the choppy, segmented Q&A of an online forum. By all means, please keep asking questions here!!!! I'm just suggesting that too because I would imagine that they would be happy that you're interested and would love to help you on your journey.

Here's another thing that no one has mentioned that may help you. Now you prOBably aren't ready for this yet, but if you decide that it might be right for you, would your parents be open to you attending a different church from them? I only ask because it seems like the church you were attending may not have been the best experience for you and that's okay. There are lots of good Christian churches. Perhaps there is a church in your area (that your parents approve of course) that has a good youth program? Maybe once you learn a little bit that might be something to look into. Most young people have lots of questions and youth bible studies and activities can be great places to learn more and get some of those questions answered.

Sorry that that was kind of long, but it wasn't that long ago that I was your age and I can relate a little bit to looking for answers to hard questions.

[Anon]

I'm trying to accept that, believe me I am. You have to realize though, I am potentially going to give up all that I am for what you believe. I want to know that I'm not going to be blinded into becomeing someone who I am not. How do I know that I'm not just going to be persecuted even more for trying this?

Anyways, I have a bible in front of me and I'm going to start reading it from the beginning. So for first road block I should say, is 'the beginning' the beginning of time and everything? Is heaven one place? What does it mean by Earth?(the planet, the universe, the world of Earth as we live in it making Heaven an completely different world?) And I already have learned that he did so because he wanted the fellowship of his kind in other forms correct?

Actually in light of eternity, you don't have to give up much to believe the truth. Because if it IS truth...you wouldn't want to be anywhere else but in the center of it.

I wish you lived out west...my dad is sort of a self-made geologist and spends a ton of time collecting fossils and gemstones and he teaches classes on Creation. He has a friend who was an atheist but after they spent hours and hours in the wilderness, the atheist was able to see the truth in the Bible regarding the flood, fossil record, and other things. Its there...if you know the truth...but then that's a side note. :-)

To answer your questions..."In the Beginning" is yes the beginning. It is hard to wrap your mind around, but God never had a beginning and will never have an end. So the "beginning" would be the beginning of "time". When you think about it, the only really qualified God would be one who has never had a beginning or end! If they did, that meant they were created by some higher Being...or "evolved" like everything else...either way not really worthy of worship.

So in the beginning was the heavens (there are three heavens in the Bible...one is our immediate atmosphere...one is space...and one is where God lives.) and the earth (our planet) but initially it was "without form, and void" and then as you read through, you see how God spoke all into existence in six days.

As another side note, anything we see today that we put down to evolution can be explained by the truth of the Bible. Different languages started at the Tower of Babel (later in Genesis), not evolution. The Great Flood of Noah is what caused all the markings of the earth and killed the dinosaurs....and caused all our present day fossils...(fish fossils in the desert? caves?)

Anyway keep reading!

[Alumentum]

Actually in light of eternity, you don't have to give up much to believe the truth. Because if it IS truth...you wouldn't want to be anywhere else but in the center of it.

I wish you lived out west...my dad is sort of a self-made geologist and spends a ton of time collecting fossils and gemstones and he teaches classes on Creation. He has a friend who was an atheist but after they spent hours and hours in the wilderness, the atheist was able to see the truth in the Bible regarding the flood, fossil record, and other things. Its there...if you know the truth...but then that's a side note. :-)

To answer your questions..."In the Beginning" is yes the beginning. It is hard to wrap your mind around, but God never had a beginning and will never have an end. So the "beginning" would be the beginning of "time". When you think about it, the only really qualified God would be one who has never had a beginning or end! If they did, that meant they were created by some higher Being...or "evolved" like everything else...either way not really worthy of worship.

So in the beginning was the heavens (there are three heavens in the Bible...one is our immediate atmosphere...one is space...and one is where God lives.) and the earth (our planet) but initially it was "without form, and void" and then as you read through, you see how God spoke all into existence in six days.

As another side note, anything we see today that we put down to evolution can be explained by the truth of the Bible. Different languages started at the Tower of Babel (later in Genesis), not evolution. The Great Flood of Noah is what caused all the markings of the earth and killed the dinosaurs....and caused all our present day fossils...(fish fossils in the desert? caves?)

Anyway keep reading!

Ah, ok. So I read Genisis over and over again last night. I still have questions but, somethings are starting to make sense...I think X /. I'm going to start a new thread in the False section to ask some questions and try to figure this stuff out.