Coffee in the Sanctuary? Pastor John Piper Ignites Debate

Nice to know that Piper is still consistent in his "hit-and-run" style of posting. Sorry, though at times he does present some good things and actively participates in the discussion, I am not a fan. 

22 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Nice to know that Piper is still consistent in his "hit-and-run" style of posting. Sorry, though at times he does present some good things and actively participates in the discussion, I am not a fan. 

I get it and understand that. So...any thoughts on coffee in the sanctuary? 

1. Hard to get out of the carpet

2. Why have it? Is someone that addicted they can’t bear to be without it for an hour? Burden of proof for having it should be on those wanting to bring it in (I say that as someone who sometimes is still drinking my first coffee to wake up as I arrive at church - but I finish it outside the sanctuary or leave it).

2 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

I get it and understand that. So...any thoughts on coffee in the sanctuary? 

Personally I would rather people NOT bring it into the sanctuary. Whether there are carpeted, lvp, marble, or plain hardwood floors, a spill would be messy and be a major distraction and possibly a tool the adversary could use. Yet, in the Cowboy Church we occasionally attend they allow coffee. The floor is concrete, and these people are used to stepping in and walking through things much worse than coffee.

Coffee is not allowed during our main worship service, but it is allowed during Sunday School and evening Bible Study. We found that coffee created a too-casual atmosphere during the worship service. Of course, every area is different, but that was the case for us.

My hubs has told folks no coffee in the sanctuary at all, nor other drinks besides water. We meet in a manufactured home, so the living room area (which is our sanctuary) is open and connected with the kitchen. When we first began attending, Sunday and Wednesday nights were around the table where everyone had coffee or whatever.  Atmosphere was WAY too casual, and more general talking took place than anything else. People would bring whatever they were drinking into the sanctuary on Sunday mornings. And there was a spill. Stained the (already messy) carpet, but worse than that it wasn't wiped off the chairs...and it molded. Ugh!

So when  hubs became pastor, he shook things up...no more sitting around the table in the evenings, and nothing but water in the sanctuary. Made some folks pretty unhappy  (and the resulting gossip is what led to the church split about a year later). But he stuck to his guns.  Coffee was always ready when folks arrived, so they could sip and chat before services.

However, it was a habit for one of the men to start another pot just before the service ended...hubs put a stop to that, so the new pot was made earlier (we were given some carafes which kept the coffee hot, so that helped).

Fast forward to a guest beginning to attend. He had absolutely no respect for the fact that we were a church. He treated the building like it was a house (even wanted us to let him move in to the kids' Sunday School room since at the time we had no kids attending...even though he was told no, he began bringing some of his stuff and leaving it in there, hanging his clothes in the closet, etc). He did awful  things like hanging his wet socks on the fire extinguisher in the kitchen and walking around barefoot, getting upset when hubs told him to put shoes on because we are a church, not someone's house. There was a lot of other stuff. Like bringing breakfast in late to Sunday School and eating it over the island, rummaging through the fridge and the cupboards while hubs was teaching, etc. Leaving a mess, yada yada.

So hubs instituted a new thing: kitchen is closed 5minutes before Sunday School and not open again until after the morning service. Also closed during evening services. Everybody understood why and had no problem with it.

Our son is a major coffee drinker, as are two of the other men. But they don't even try to carry it into the sanctuary. And coffee drinking stops at 5 til service time.

All of that said is anecdotal, but it is why we don't have coffee during service times. There was not a reverent attitude and it really did hurt the atmosphere. No, coffee wasn't the culprit, but sitting there drinking it during service time helped create the atmosphere.

So, to an extent I agree with no coffee. But there are churches that do allow it, and I'm not going to say they are wrong...because, you know, independent. 

I don't think it's necessary, as salyan said, for that little length of time. But, again, each church is different (the churches I know that have added the cafes to their churches aren't what they used to be...but I don't blame the coffee houses as the problem, it's more a symptom).

Only water should be permitted inside the worship service center, I cough bad sometimes and have my water bottle nearby, just incase. Keep those Bibles dry and smartphones. Food and drinks eating, are just troublemakers. Having coffee areas outside, are just fine. 

9 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

Only water should be permitted inside the worship service center, I cough bad sometimes and have my water bottle nearby, just incase.      

I have the challenge of the dry mouth variety. Mine is caused by the many medications I have to take. So, I have my water bottle handy wherever I go.  In the church we're members of that's not a problem. But, in the church we're visiting, there's a sign on the door to the sanctuary that instructs people to leave all food and drink outside. But, that pastor knows what is going on, as do the deacons, so there's no problem.

Keep those Bibles dry and smartphones. Food and drinks eating, are just troublemakers.

Trouble makers? Morales, you're letting your opinions be stated as fact. Most are far from trouble makers. Some may be new Christians or people who have never been to a church service before. Personally I would prefer no food or drink in the sanctuary as this is an area of the building set aside specifically for the worship of the Lord. When Christians met when he church first began they were meeting in homes and we're sharing a meal before worship. It could have been acceptable then. We will never really know.

 

Having coffee areas outside, are just fine. 

10 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Only water should be permitted inside the worship service center,

What is the difference between sipping water or sipping coffee?  The service I attend on Sunday starts at 8:15.  I am just getting in to my coffee drinking for the day and carry a no-spill contigo.  

If someone has a too casual attitude during the worship of Almighty God, it ain't the coffee's fault.  Check his (spiritual)temp with a thermometer! 

It is probably a good idea to prepare our hearts for worship before we enter the meeting area, possibly before we leave our homes.  Can we do this while eating breakfast and drinking coffee?  Yes. 

Absolutely, but outside the worship center, or at home before coming to church. I wake up early to do all these things you mentioned. The church is not a social club. Sorry for being a little rough, but the truth shall make us free.

13 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

Absolutely, but outside the worship center, or at home before coming to church. I wake up early to do all these things you mentioned. The church is not a social club. Sorry for being a little ruff, but the truth shall make us free.

There's nothing in the Bible that forbids coffee in the sanctuary. Can you explain what truth you're trying to convey to us?

There's nothing inherently wrong with drinking coffee or other beverages at church, but if there are clear rules about eating or drinking in certain areas during certain times, it would be respectful to follow those rules. My church doesn't have such rules, but when I attend churches that do, I follow them. 

4 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

The church is not a social club. Sorry for being a little ruff

Ruff??  Anyway, the church is a "social club".  In fact, a private social club.  Church, ekklisia, is the fellowship of the believer.  Where we come to praise, worship, learn, uplift each other, and socialize among other things.  If you study it out, the church you go today looks nothing like the 1st century churches.  We are to be in the world but not of the world.  So, while going through this life of separation but still having to work, shop, and live in this world, we at times feel beat up.  We get harassed and snubbed.  We see all the filth and injustices.  All the temptations.  Yes, we go to church to give reverence and worship to an Holy God, but don't forget it is also a blessing to us.  We should feel like we are with family.  We should feel relaxed as well as excited to walk through the doors.  I was glad when they said unto me, "let us go into the house of the Lord."   If we go and feel like we are there to sit down, shut up, don't drink your coffee and pay attention, what blessing is that?  I can get that at a safety meeting at work.  If the church is so uptight. we might as well go back to puritan times where the women and kids sat on one side and the men on the other.  And don't dare smile or you will be kicked out for being irreverent or having a demon.  Remember, Jesus fed the 5000.  Where were they?  He was preaching/teaching.  Some were believers.  It was "church".  You are putting too much stock in the brick and mortar building that is called church.

51 minutes ago, robmac68 said:

Ruff??  Anyway, the church is a "social club".  In fact, a private social club.  Church, ekklisia, is the fellowship of the believer.  Where we come to praise, worship, learn, uplift each other, and socialize among other things.  If you study it out, the church you go today looks nothing like the 1st century churches.  We are to be in the world but not of the world.  So, while going through this life of separation but still having to work, shop, and live in this world, we at times feel beat up.  We get harassed and snubbed.  We see all the filth and injustices.  All the temptations.  Yes, we go to church to give reverence and worship to an Holy God, but don't forget it is also a blessing to us.  We should feel like we are with family.  We should feel relaxed as well as excited to walk through the doors.  I was glad when they said unto me, "let us go into the house of the Lord."   If we go and feel like we are there to sit down, shut up, don't drink your coffee and pay attention, what blessing is that?  I can get that at a safety meeting at work.  If the church is so uptight. we might as well go back to puritan times where the women and kids sat on one side and the men on the other.  And don't dare smile or you will be kicked out for being irreverent or having a demon.  Remember, Jesus fed the 5000.  Where were they?  He was preaching/teaching.  Some were believers.  It was "church".  You are putting too much stock in the brick and mortar building that is called church.

Thank you for replying. There’s a time for fellowship, time for eating and time for just sitting back and relaxing, but when we go to the worship part of the service, the service center is to worship, listen to the preaching, and to bring our tithe and offering. All the other things are done before or after the services, not during.

Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

Maybe he should of had some coffee????

5 hours ago, robmac68 said:

Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

Maybe he should of had some coffee????

Or he stay up late the night prior watching Netflix. 

I drink coffee in Sunday School and leave my cup there when church starts.  I don't believe it belongs in the preaching service and I can do without it for an hour. But I wouldn't attend John Piper's church regardless of whether he let me drink coffee in the sanctuary or not. He has much more pressing things to get right on, than "drinking coffee" in church.

23 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Thank you for replying. There’s a time for fellowship, time for eating and time for just sitting back and relaxing, but when we go to the worship part of the service, the service center is to worship, listen to the preaching, and to bring our tithe and offering. All the other things are done before or after the services, not during.

Amazing also, the church is a social club. this is not good.

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Amazing also, the church is a social club. this is not good.

It's supposed to be a place of worship, but it has to be a social club, and I hate that word "club." But, it is a club of sorts. One can't get away from that fact.

No, it's not supposed to be a "social club" per se.. But being "social" is the whole point of  "the assembling of yourselves together".

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There are differences between coffee and water...coffee is hot and can scald if someone is not careful and  spills it on someone. Drinking-temp water is not/would not.  Coffee stains if spilled, water does not. Coffee stinks as it sits and dries if not thoroughly cleaned up. Water does not. As I mentioned earlier, coffee will also mold. Water will not. (now, granted, if someone is on the ball and thoroughly cleans the spill, there are not real problems...but when the church cleaner isn't thorough, or when a spill is not mentioned, problems come).

Aside from that, coffee is also a beverage that many folks enjoy while chatting with friends. No problem with that. But we have experienced the casual attitude that takes over when everyone's holding a cup of coffee (in some cases it was tea and hot chocolate - you can't say no to those if you say yes to coffee).  Anyone who is familiar with human nature knows that an irreverent attitude during worship service is a heart issue. That's not even my point...my point is if the pastor KNOWS that something is going to encourage a casual atmosphere and allows it, that pastor is guilty of encouraging what will likely lead to an irreverent - and then worldly - atmosphere, and heart issues amongst those who are irreverent. If you haven't experienced a church that is actually irreverent due to casual atmosphere, it's not uplifting at all.

Again, each church has to make its own decision. But I have to disagree that church is a  "private social club." God's church is not a club, social or otherwise, and shouldn't be treated as such. It is the called out assembly of believers joining together to worship a Holy God. Fellowshipping at church does not equate to the club atmosphere. True Christian fellowship far surpasses that of any social club. IMO.  (That does not mean churches that allow coffee during the morning service are sinning, FWIW.)

I don't think anyone is going to be able to point to scripture that forbids coffee during the worship service. But there are many principles regarding behavior in the House of God that might give folks pause.

On 10/12/2023 at 1:29 PM, heartstrings said:

I drink coffee in Sunday School and leave my cup there when church starts.  I don't believe it belongs in the preaching service and I can do without it for an hour. But I wouldn't attend John Piper's church regardless of whether he let me drink coffee in the sanctuary or not. He has much more pressing things to get right on, than "drinking coffee" in church.

Agreed 

I have never heard of coffee being drunk during the Services. Our church has a time of fellowship with coffee or tea in the back hall after the service. I did go to a church in France once where they had a break before the sermon and had baguettes, but I can't remember what else. 

21 minutes ago, Invicta said:

I have never heard of coffee being drunk during the Services. Our church has a time of fellowship with coffee or tea in the back hall after the service. I did go to a church in France once where they had a break before the sermon and had baguettes, but I can't remember what else. 

It's not a common practice among churches to have coffee in the sanctuary/auditorium. But, there are some churches that I have been in and part of that do. One such group is the Cowboy Church movement. Many of the churches that associate with this group allow it as many are farmers and ranchers and have work to do before and after service and don't have a chance to stop for breakfast. Many in the Cowboy Church movement, and many SBC churches now have breakfast or donuts and coffee before SS and church.