1John2:15-17

I think one aspect of being IFB that needs to be clear is whether or not the persons allow scripture to change their lives. I know that even amongst IFB there is disagreement on things like pants on women, some music styles, etc. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the tendency of some posters to post things that are phrased as a question or an honest search for truth, but then turn it to their actual intent: to push their wrong doctrine or to snipe and pick and sneer (however politely) at IFB for wanting to stand on truth. How that could translate is the problem, but I think Pastorj has the right idea.

Rather than limiting IFB forums to a certain section, why not limit non-IFB to certain sections and have the main parts of the forum for only IFB. Like the Lounge, as Pastorj suggested. Perhaps the Lounge and Current Events, since the two would likely cross at times.

Amen.....unfortunately today's "smooth" Christianity wants to have both, professing their being "saved" all the while they continue to be in the world, walk with the world, talk like the world, etc. Too many people today want to change Christianity to fit their lifestyle (or pick and choose what parts of the Bible to adhere to). As said before, today's "progressive" churches are too focused on coffee shops, bookstores, and social gathering, while not truly preaching the Bible......come as you are, leave the same, don't worry, you're ok....

Yes, when one gets saved the "world" doesn't leave instantly, rather the Holy Spirit works on the new child of God and "convicts" the new child of God and things he/she had done begin to disappear. One will not want to intentionally do anything that is against God and His word.

As I heard once - when a saved person/Christian willingly knows something is sinful and goes ahead and does it anyway, he/she is basically spitting in God's face, telling God "I'm gonna do it anyway."

It's been said before, what part of "be ye separate" is not understood?

No, it's as Jerry said, the Bible has the answers if one is truly interested in finding the answer and actually following Christ. The issue of modesty is not a difficult one. Most of the body should be covered and it should not be covered by form fitting clothing.

You seem to want to continually reject Scripture in favor of your own desires or your own preferences. When any of us do this, that is rebellion against God. Rather than play with the world, rather than run our own lives in our very limited wisdom, if we are to be true followers of Christ we must submit to Him, stay as far from sin and the world as we can, striving to be holy, for He is holy.

Throughout Christian history those who truly commit their lives to following Christ are called "radical", "extreme", "fanatical" or even "hyper-this and that". The biblical fact is, that's exactly what God calls us to be. Nowhere in the Bible are professing Christians called to be nominal, half-hearted, lukewarm, fence sitters, compromisers or any such thing.

Christ says we are to forsake all and follow Him. Total surrender, total submission of our lives and all we have to Him.

Consider all that Paul gave up for the sake of following Christ. Then look at how petty so many professing Christians can be as they whine about how really following Christ might mean they have to change jobs, or they might make less money, or they would need to give up listening to their favorite secular music, they would have to stop watching those wicked shows/movies all their friends watch, their friends wouldn't understand and would leave or turn against them, dressing modestly will make me less popular, no more summer beach vacation, etc.

Paul gave up being a top man of the Jewish religious/political elite. Gave up all his friends. Gave up all opportunities for advancement and prominence among his onw people and his own nation. Paul cast it all aside, saying it was nothing but dung in comparison to knowing and following Christ.

Meanwhile Christians today stamp their feet about wanting things their own way. They want to be consider as Christians yet they want to cling to the things of the world, whether it's worldly music, tattoos, filthy movies, drinking booze, dressing how they please, going through life according to their own plans with little, if any, regard to what God has to say about anything.

Jesus asked why so many were calling Him Lord when they were not doing as He says. Jesus went on to point out that those who truly love Him keep His commandments.

What do we see more of today, those who truly follow Christ or those who say they are His but wallow in the world and direct their own lives?

Jesus warns that one day many will stand before Him who claim to be His but Jesus will declare He never knew them and they will be cast away. This is one of the reasons we are all warned to examine our own salvation. Are we truly following Christ or are we following our own wills and the ways of the world?

I would not consider myself properly dressed if I went to church in jeans. I would only wear jeans when I am working in the garden. At church I usually wear a suit as do most of our older men, the youngsters mostly dress more casually.

Our liberty is not to be used as an occasion to sin. We are to represent Christ in all we say and do. Our appearance should honour Christ. Dressing immodestly, participating in worldly endeavors, entertaining ourselves with what Scripture says is sin, and all such matters cannot be done to the glory of God and are something Christians are commanded not to be a part of.

Christ gave His life for us yet some of us think we have some right or liberty to do as we please. For the glory of God should we not be willing to wear modest clothing rather than what we might prefer? Should we not be more than willing to forsake the ways of the world to give our all for Christ just as He did for us?

Professing Christians are to be growing in spritiual maturity, becoming more Christlike, pursuing holiness. Remaining childish, demanding our own way is rebuked in Scripture. We are to deny self, that means we are to put away selfishness and do ALL for the glory of God.

If one looks worldly (inappropriate jewelry, immodest clothing, etc), walks worldly (doing worldly things), and talks worldly, then one must be worldly (and not walking right with God). A child walking/striving to walk with The Lord should not be anything like this. We are called to be separate. We should look different, act different (when compared to the world).

Call me conservative, call me narrow-minded....I'm as narrow minded as God's word.

I've never heard of a hyper-conservative. I've heard of conservatives, neo-conservatives and paleo-conservatives.

In any event, if one is using Scripture as the yardstick they will be viewed as extreme if they actually believe and follow the Scriptures.

Scripture is not unclear with regards to things such as attire and pertains to all cultures. Modesty is clearly taught for all. Not conforming to the way of the world is clearly taught. It doesn't matter what culture one is in, most of the body is to be covered in a modest manner when in public or the company of those not ones spouse.

Even where Scripture doesn't give a direct command or statement, Scripture provides an abundance of principles for us to apply to everything in life.

What we see today is most Christians wanting to have a Burger King Christianity, they want to have it their way. Scripture is clear on dressing modestly yet most Christians dress the same or nearly the same as the immodest world dresses.

Look at the many Christians today who call themselves Christians yet they don't follow Christ; they follow their own lusts, the ways of the world, their own will. Professing Christians flock to the R-rated movies where they hear the name of Jesus profaned continuously, where sinful sex is seen in detail and in an approving manner, where the "morals" of the world are promoted and other ungodly things are put into the hearts and minds of those viewing.

What does Jesus say? If you love me you will keep my commandments. If we want to follow Christ we are called to deny self, live for Christ, even to the point of it being Christ living in us and not ourselves. How many professing Christians even attempt this let alone actually strive for this? Most professing Christians want to have the security they feel in saying they are Christian while refusing or outright rejecting following Christ.

Jesus asked why so many call Him Lord yet don't do as He commands. Jesus warned the day will come when many will stand before Him declaring they are His yet He will tell them plainly He never knew them and cast them away.

Scripture doesn't call folks to profess to be Christian and follow the world, Scripture calls for actual disciples who follow Christ. We are warned to examine our faith to be sure of our salvation.

When we seek God's direction we are not seeking after "a sense of personal guidance", we are seeking God's will for our lives. God's revealed will for our lives will never contradict Scripture so the two are never at odds as to which is authoritative.

Biblical answers were provided long ago, it's been the attempt to ignore such that has prolonged the duration of this thread.

Next you'll probably try to convince us that the Joel Osteen's, Rick Warren's, Benny Hinn's of the world are great men and that there is nothing wrong with their teachings and/or theology.

BTW---your liberalness is showing.

Exactly!!

If one comes in with a head full of metal and later truly becomes saved, the Holy Spirit will deal with them. For example, there are 2 people in our church who when they first visited had quite a few piercings and tatoos. They got saved, and slowly the piercings (these are men) disappeared and the tatoos began to be covered up. It was a process, but it was the Holy Spirit that did it....no one (not even the preacher) went up to them to discuss these issues.

Unfortunately we had another person who came for a while, quite a few piercings in the head, lip, eyebrow.....said he gave his life to The Lord, then after a few weeks quit coming to church. He ignored phone calls, contacts from church people/friends. Come to find out a few months later that he returned to his "rock band" lifestyle.

None of these 3 were approached by anyone regarding how they looked or dressed, rather they were welcomed continually each time they attended. It was only through the Holy Spirit that the changes were made (at least in 2 of them). The 2 that remain are faithful to church attendance, church activities and soul winning.

A truly saved Christian will not condone or advocate that a saved person (or his/her children) go out and do worldly things, whether it be getting a tat or a piercing, going to the movie house, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a true Christian would even consider and willingly go and want to be like the world because we are called to be separate. Yes, we are all sinners, but those of us who are saved are saved sinners, and in those times when we start to think about doing something sinful, we should not feel right about it, rather we should be feeling conviction about what we are about to do, think, etc. If/when we do something, then we should feel convicted and should repent of whatever it was we did, thought or said.

Thanks John. I must have been typing my reply as you were posting yours. I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, my reply may have been a little harsh....I'm just tired of the few that come here, trying to bring and justify their worldly ways.

Exactly!!

If one comes in with a head full of metal and later truly becomes saved, the Holy Spirit will deal with them. For example, there are 2 people in our church who when they first visited had quite a few piercings and tatoos. They got saved, and slowly the piercings (these are men) disappeared and the tatoos began to be covered up. It was a process, but it was the Holy Spirit that did it....no one (not even the preacher) went up to them to discuss these issues.

Unfortunately we had another person who came for a while, quite a few piercings in the head, lip, eyebrow.....said he gave his life to The Lord, then after a few weeks quit coming to church. He ignored phone calls, contacts from church people/friends. Come to find out a few months later that he returned to his "rock band" lifestyle.

None of these 3 were approached by anyone regarding how they looked or dressed, rather they were welcomed continually each time they attended. It was only through the Holy Spirit that the changes were made (at least in 2 of them). The 2 that remain are faithful to church attendance, church activities and soul winning.

A truly saved Christian will not condone or advocate that a saved person (or his/her children) go out and do worldly things, whether it be getting a tat or a piercing, going to the movie house, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a true Christian would even consider and willingly go and want to be like the world because we are called to be separate. Yes, we are all sinners, but those of us who are saved are saved sinners, and in those times when we start to think about doing something sinful, we should not feel right about it, rather we should be feeling conviction about what we are about to do, think, etc. If/when we do something, then we should feel convicted and should repent of whatever it was we did, thought or said.

Exactly!!

If one comes in with a head full of metal and later truly becomes saved, the Holy Spirit will deal with them. For example, there are 2 people in our church who when they first visited had quite a few piercings and tatoos. They got saved, and slowly the piercings (these are men) disappeared and the tatoos began to be covered up. It was a process, but it was the Holy Spirit that did it....no one (not even the preacher) went up to them to discuss these issues.

Unfortunately we had another person who came for a while, quite a few piercings in the head, lip, eyebrow.....said he gave his life to The Lord, then after a few weeks quit coming to church. He ignored phone calls, contacts from church people/friends. Come to find out a few months later that he returned to his "rock band" lifestyle.

None of these 3 were approached by anyone regarding how they looked or dressed, rather they were welcomed continually each time they attended. It was only through the Holy Spirit that the changes were made (at least in 2 of them). The 2 that remain are faithful to church attendance, church activities and soul winning.

A truly saved Christian will not condone or advocate that a saved person (or his/her children) go out and do worldly things, whether it be getting a tat or a piercing, going to the movie house, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a true Christian would even consider and willingly go and want to be like the world because we are called to be separate. Yes, we are all sinners, but those of us who are saved are saved sinners, and in those times when we start to think about doing something sinful, we should not feel right about it, rather we should be feeling conviction about what we are about to do, think, etc. If/when we do something, then we should feel convicted and should repent of whatever it was we did, thought or said.

Next you'll probably try to convince us that the Joel Osteen's, Rick Warren's, Benny Hinn's of the world are great men and that there is nothing wrong with their teachings and/or theology.

BTW---your liberalness is showing.

Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated.

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted.

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin.

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively".

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.

(forgot to hit quote, so I copied this as my reference):

farouk, on 26 July 2011 - 08:38 PM, said:


So, right: tell me, please, exactly what the Bible says about, for example, earrings, so that we can known exactly what you mean by saying that they are unscriptural, in your view.



(reply from John) This is your tactic in each thread of this sort. You obfuscate the issue, move away from the actual topic, attempt to turn the whole issue in another direction and put words in the mouths of those promoting the Word and sound Christian living.
Either you wish to truly live for Christ, following Him fully, striving to stay far from sin or even the hint of sin, or you are not.



For a while during this thread I got the "impression" that part of this thread was trying to defend a barbell piercing.

A little leaven ruins the whole loaf.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

These verses ring in my head frequently, whether I encounter or see something that is wrong, or when I do something that is wrong.
I am also reminded of something my pastor says, "what part of "be ye separate" don't you understand?

Whether it is a barbell piercing, pink hair, purple hair, punk hair, tatoos, CCM, it is all worldly, and I will not be convinced if anyone tries to tell me that these are "ways" to win the young to The Lord. You must have a good testimony. You cannot look nor act like "the world." We are called to be separate, to be different. God hasn't changed, rather people must change.

You want to win the youth to the Lord, bring them to camp, bring them to VBS....they will be exposed to peers that are more right for them. Have your own church kids witness to them. Also, the adults must have a good testimony as well, they must be the same in and out of church. Parents need to be parents, not a child's best friend. It also helps when the parents are in church and their Bibles as well.

Our church is having VBS this week, and I've read there have been a few saved already in the first 2 nights. Last week they had senior camp. 2 weeks before that they had junior camp. Get the kids away from the video games, TV, hanging out at the malls, and get them to church.

I'll get off my soapbox now....

Yes, it shouldn't have a "swinging tune", even though it's typically a bit more pronounced, such as is "I'll Fly Away", but I've only seen such performed in a "swinging" way by secular groups.

Amen!! :goodpost:

Matthew 15:8

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.



Matthew 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4)

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." (2 Corinthians 6:17

The church doesn't have to perform every wedding they are asked to perform and they don't have to allow anything into their church they deem inappropriate. The church/pastor is in charge with regards to what is and isn't acceptable in their church.

There is music that needs to be kept out of the church, even when a wedding is taking place. Yet many churches will let any type of music into their churches when its not regular worship services, and some let any type in during that time.

There is just not much fear of the Lord with some people, and others just don't know any better.

Once a friend was bad mouthing an Assembly of God Church. His son was going to get married there, and his son nor the woman he was marrying were members of this church. The pastor found out the songs they were going to use, and I believe there were two that he told them they could not use. they told him they would sue any song they pleased, that did not go over very well. Yet the pastor told them, leave those two songs out, pick two more songs that I approve of, and your welcome to have your wedding here, if not, them no wedding in this church.

My friend was surprised that I agreed with the pastor, and telling him he should not be bad mouthing him.

In the church is no place for worldly music, not even when its a wedding.

I think it matters very much where you attend. Most churches today are very worldly, accepting worldly standards of dress, contemporary Christian music, secular entertainment, and the list goes on. They tend to accept compromise with the world rather than encouraging members to "come out from among them and be ye separate". If you have found a strong IFB church and can hear the messages preached by your regular pastor even if you are not able to be physically present, it seems the choice should be easily made. Attending a non-IFB church would invite teachings that are not faithful to the truth. You already have a church where you know the teachings and lifestyle are godly.

It sounds like your wife may not quite understand the importance of attending a strong church, and she is fortunate to have your guidance on this important issue. It's possible that if you begin attending a non-IFB church during your absences from home, you might send her mixed messages about the importance of attending a strong, Bible-based church rather than going to just any building that happens to be adorned with a steeple. One teaches the whole truth, the other offers truth mixed with falsehood. The devil truly is in the details.