Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 16:13- Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he [or "it"] will guide you into all truth: for he [or "it"] shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he [or "it"] shall hear, that shall he [or "it"] speak: and he [or "it"] will shew you things to come. 14- He [or "it"] shall glorify me: for he [or "it"] shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15- All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 16-A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. In Heb/Grk, "spirit" means "breath, the wind"- a power. So God sending his spirit does not mean Him sending another part of Themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrotherTony Posted May 4 Members Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, Thinking said: That WAS from the KJV. 12:49- For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50- And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. Jesus was a Messager/Angel of God. That wasn't what I was referring to. You used several other translations in one post back in this thread. It's not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 41 minutes ago, BrotherTony said: That wasn't what I was referring to. You used several other translations in one post back in this thread. It's not allowed. You mean COMPARING translations not allowed? Shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 16:27- For the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28- I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. God and Christ are spoken of separately throughout the Bible. John 17:1- These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee. Who was Jesus praying to? Himself? Themselves? Or.. to his God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Solution Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Solution Share Posted May 4 John 17:3- And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Straight from Jesus mouth- the same in EVERY translation! 17:4- I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Who can give God work???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 17:5- And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. What name was His son known by, before his birth to Mary? Was it "Who is Like God" (Michael)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 17:6- I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. What name is that? "the Lord"?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 Remember "I and the Father are ONE"? (Always used by churchgoers to 'prove' Jesus is God? John 17:11- And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 17:21- That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22- And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23- I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24- Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25- O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26- And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. The Name "Jehovah" wasn't in the Koine Greek- but later on it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 John 20:17- Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Those who do not worship the God of Jesus, aren't Christians. John 20:28- And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Those that use this to say Jesus was his own God are just taking a "cheap shot'. He was thanking them BOTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrotherTony Posted May 4 Members Share Posted May 4 32 minutes ago, Thinking said: John 20:17- Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Those who do not worship the God of Jesus, aren't Christians. John 20:28- And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Those that use this to say Jesus was his own God are just taking a "cheap shot'. He was thanking them BOTH. I think you'd better get a better grasp of the English language. If someone were to say you were a brother and a friend doesn't mean that they're addressing two different people. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, BrotherTony said: I think you'd better get a better grasp of the English language. If someone were to say you were a brother and a friend doesn't mean that they're addressing two different people. Get real. Jesus VERY CLEARLY stated he has a God. And if my mom was resurrected I would say "My mom and my Jesus!"- wouldn't YOU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrotherTony Posted May 4 Members Share Posted May 4 3 hours ago, Thinking said: Jesus VERY CLEARLY stated he has a God. And if my mom was resurrected I would say "My mom and my Jesus!"- wouldn't YOU? The Bible clearly teaches Jesus IS God. Your being here trying to change that fact with your JW ideology doesn't change that fact. Your constant misinterpretation of scripture doesn't change it. You clearly don't know the Lord, and I am still praying for your salvation. You have to believe on the Christ of the Bible and confess him as Lord or you won't make it to Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Author Members Share Posted May 4 31 minutes ago, BrotherTony said: The Bible clearly teaches Jesus IS God. Your being here trying to change that fact with your JW ideology doesn't change that fact. Your constant misinterpretation of scripture doesn't change it. You clearly don't know the Lord, and I am still praying for your salvation. You have to believe on the Christ of the Bible and confess him as Lord or you won't make it to Heaven. John shows otherwise. Don't you mean "Lords", since you have 3 of Them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeWatson1 Posted May 5 Members Share Posted May 5 Key point here: the concept of agency. In Jewish tradition, when someone carries the message for another as an agent. The agent effectively becomes the originator of the message. They are like the representative of the originator..fully. So.. when Jesus says 'I and the Father are one' .. Jesus is claiming equality with the Father. Jesus's message IS the Father's message. When Jesus says the Father is 'greater than I'..the context is not of superiority over the Son..but of Jesus being on earth and the Father in heaven. This changes not long afterward with Jesus as one with the Father on His ascension. It would be a little like me saying the President is greater than I. Is he a superior being? No. But he is in a greater position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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