Sounds like "closet Calvinism" to me. Call it what you will, it's not the salvation taught by any Baptist Church I've been a member of.

On 6/25/2023 at 7:08 PM, BrotherTony said:

Sounds like "closet Calvinism" to me.

Its not Calvinism. Calvinism does not speak of humility being God's requirement nor does it speak of God's love drawing the sinner as the cause. Calvinism speaks of a lucky ticket system that is unknowable to the recipient, who must receive it regardless of their will. Biblically Salvation is all of God choosing and drawing to himself those he chooses by knowable processes. It speaks of both HE and the ones he choses being active and willing participants in the call.

There's a lot of terminology and hermeneutical twisting that sure fits that mold. If God has already decided who is saved and picked his favorites then John 3:16 is a lie, and so are all verses stating and implying God would have that all men would be saved. You can't have it both ways, John. Call it what you want, it still fits the Calvinist mold. You can add "humbly" all you want, it's still not a free will choice if it's been prescribed.

2 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

There's a lot of terminology and hermeneutical twisting that sure fits that mold.

Arminians and Calvinist are all about not having it both ways and they are the ones attempting to fit things in molds to either be of free will (arminians) or forced will (calvinist). I believe God is greater to know whom he saves before time as well as the recipient being willfully receptive in time. Just as it is presented in scripture. No need to fit it in any reformist mold.

2 minutes ago, John Young said:

Arminians and Calvinist are all about not having it both ways and they are the ones attempting to fit things in molds to either be of free will (arminians) or forced will (calvinist). I believe God is greater to know whom he saves before time as well as the recipient being willfully receptive in time. Just as it is presented in scripture. No need to fit it in any reformist mold.

I'll take your word for what you believe. I'm neither Arminian or Calvinist. I can only call things as they seem to be presented though. Peace to you.

BT

1 minute ago, BrotherTony said:

I'll take your word for what you believe. I'm neither Arminian or Calvinist. I can only call things as they seem to be presented though. Peace to you.

Fair enough. Have a good day Brother!

On 6/27/2023 at 8:01 AM, John Young said:

Its not Calvinism. Calvinism does not speak of humility being God's requirement nor does it speak of God's love drawing the sinner as the cause. Calvinism speaks of a lucky ticket system that is unknowable to the recipient, who must receive it regardless of their will. Biblically Salvation is all of God choosing and drawing to himself those he chooses by knowable processes. It speaks of both HE and the ones he choses being active and willing participants in the call.

Neither Romans 9, nor any other passage in the Bible speaks of God drawing or choosing individuals for salvation. Not only that, but the terms "election" and "predestination" are always used with plural pronouns (for instance, the word "You" is a plural pronoun in the King James) God chose that His people would be "elect" and he chose that His people would be "predestinated" to be conformed to the image of Christ. Jesus said:  ^And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will "draw" ALL men unto me." John 12:32. And He says that He is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentence. Again, God's will is to draw all men and to bring them all to repentence: He does not choose individuals for salvation.

23 hours ago, heartstrings said:

He does not choose individuals for salvation.

I agree with what you said with exception to the first and last statement. God does call all and yet God does choose each individual based on His terms in his call and not in any arbitrary way. Notice int the following few verses. God set his parameters before time and selected his elect based on what they each did in the fullness of time.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 12:37-41 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

56 minutes ago, John Young said:

I agree with what you said with exception to the first and last statement. God does call all and yet God does choose each individual based on His terms in his call and not in any arbitrary way. Notice int the following few verses. God set his parameters before time and selected his elect based on what they each did in the fullness of time.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 12:37-41 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Context and content, John. To whom was he speaking, and about whom? I don't agree with your exegesis. Sorry, I still have to place this in the Calvinist category, even though you say you're not a Calvinist. This type of representation of the gospel is exactly how they present it. 

On 6/29/2023 at 10:58 AM, John Young said:

I agree with what you said with exception to the first and last statement. God does call all and yet God does choose each individual based on His terms in his call and not in any arbitrary way. Notice int the following few verses. God set his parameters before time and selected his elect based on what they each did in the fullness of time.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 12:37-41 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

"you"

Again, the word "you" is plural in the King James. It is speaking to a group, not individuals. And He's telling them/us HOW He chose us to be saved.... "through sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth". Who has to "believe the truth"? We do. 

"Ordained"

Does it say specifically that God ordained these men? No. There's more to the word "ordained" than most people seem to realize. It originally didn't have the specialized meaning of being appointed by some authority. It is possible and very common to "ordain" oneself to one thing or another. In this context these "ungodly men" set, ordered, arranged or established their lives toward evil things and condemnation. Whether we "beleive the truth" or "deny the Lord" and "ordain ourselves to lasciviousness", we decide the way we choose to go: God controls the consequences of our choices. God chose for it to be this way.