Dr. Robert S. Morley

I was referencing a Baptist study. It's not my opinion. I was asking Jim a question about something he believes is important. Our beliefs concerning origin and authority can get in the way of the simplicity of the gospel message.

No one can know for certain whether or not a local Baptist church is part of an unbroken succession of churches with the authority to baptise. The authority to baptise is found in God's word alone. It was given to believers to practice and to teach to others among all the things Jesus commaned (Matt. 28:19). Baptism is a command to be followed regardless of the existance of any local church (Acts 8:26-40, 16:11-15). Missionaries especially understand this. The need for, and belief in, successionism that some Baptists have seems oddly akin to the need for, and belief in, papal successionism that the Catholics have. Both are an unbiblical basis for authority and unnecessary.

Thanks, Jim. Out of interest, how would you personally know if the particular church you attended came out of 17th century Protestantism or Jerusalem? I see that three main views of origin exist among Baptists: 1) The Succession-Continuity-Perpetuity View, 2) The Spiritual Kinship View, 3) The English Separatist View (Baptist Because, The Problem of Baptist Succession). One another note, with regard to the concept of local churches and a universal church, see how the word "also" in Ephesians 2:19-22 indicates Paul connecting the local Ephesian church to the universal church Christ is building. "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit". Most importantly, if an individual, for example, picks up a tract with the good news and believes, he is immediately built into Christ's church, the temple of God, even before he finds a local church. After all, believers find their roots in the message passed on through the early church in Jerusalem, regardless of whether or nor a chain of actual churches exist. Regardless, we ought not build our faith on such a foundation, but solely upon "this rock" of proffession, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God," on which Jesus said, "I will build my church" (Matt. 16:16-18). This sole foundation is explained elsewhere more expansively as "the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Eph. 2:20).

Thanks, Tony. The origins are very interesting to consider.

I see that your view is not universally accepted among Baptists. "In 1859, the Southern Baptist Convention approved several resolutions disapproving of Landmarkism, which led to adherents gradually withdrawing from the Southern Baptist Convention "to form their own churches and associations and create an independent Landmark Baptist tradition"' - Landmarkism

Out of interest, was it Landmarkism itself that you found untenable? And, if so, do you see the origin of the Baptists being 17th-century English Separatists (who were Protestants)?

You misunderstand me. I'm trying to help you see that this source is simply being matter-of-fact.

"Baptist successionism (or Baptist perpetuity) is one of several theories on the origin and continuation of Baptist churches ... Since the end of the 19th century the trend in academic Baptist historiography has been away from the successionist viewpoint to the view that modern day Baptists are an outgrowth of 17th-century English Separatism" - Baptist successionism.

The quote is also not saying that Baptists are Protestant anymore than its saying they're Catholic or Orthodox.

Seems you are so aware of me being judgmental, please show me the evidence and I'll gladly repent too. Otherwise, simply take your admonishment with grace.

Tony, I think you're reading too much into the quote I posted. I believe the "at odds" statement is only in context of Baptists rejecting the concept of a universal church.

I understand that Baptists 'have rejected the notion of a "universal Church" altogether, admitting the authority of only local organizations, individual communities of believers, and, ultimately, each individual before God. As a result, they have found themselves at odds with the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, and mainline denominational Protestantism' (Teaching History, Baptist Origins). It is interesting to see how other Baptists have viewed the term church. For instance, this 1948 article on British on Irish Baptists, titled, The Baptist Doctrine of the Church, indicates that they fully embraced the idea if one holy catholic church. Btw, in case someone points out that I didn't refute it, I don't have a PhD. I have a Doctorate in Biblical Studies.

You're conflating our behavior. Please show me where I've been judgmental rather than admonishing.

I've pointed out objective evidence of your judgmentalism toward me. I cannot help you if you cannot recognise it it.

If you say, 'When scripture talks about more than one church, it always designates them as [sic] "churches." When scripture talks about the institution that Jesus built, it is designated as [sic] His "church" (an institution). As an institution it must be singular, but when indicating more than one it must be plural, "churches,"' haven't you just said that all "the churches" comprise the instution we call His church?

I admonished you and others because the judgmentalism is objectively evident to anybody who can read and I've given evidence to back it up. That's what I mean when I say you can only admonish what you know.

As per your request, I've posted an evangelistic message if mine on this site. It's titled, Are You Saved and Assured of Your Salvation? It required some version changes to make it suitable, nevertheless, it's especially for you my brother. I'll link another one here so you can find more if you're still interested: Am I Going To Heaven?

I publically posted my private communication to you after you made accusations regarding it.

Yes, all Scripture is God-breathed. How we communicate often distinguishes whether it's judgmentalism or admonishing. Judgmentalism is often hidden, but certain words and statements are only ever judgmentalism. For example, you judge again by saying "not cry unloving and leave threads when things don't go your way." You don't know my motives. You can only admonish what you know. I left this thread to pray, and other threads when I had said enough. Jesus and His disciples often left environments that were not conducive for growth, or when the time allocated by the Spirit was enough.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10:28-30 KJV). Revelation That Leads to Salvation All people, everywhere, experience revelation from God about Himself. “”For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Rom. 1:20). Some receive clearer revelation than others. Jesus said, “”If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin" (John 15:22). Sadly, because people are sinful, they tend to marginalize God or completely negate Him, suppressing what He reveals (Rom. 1:18-20). Some people experience a dramatic encounter with God on their life’s journey that brings them to salvation. Consequently, it is easy for them to know the moment that they have become a “new creature” (2 Cor. 5:17). For many others, salvation is not a clearly identifiable point in time. However, even though they cannot pinpoint when it happened (and may even misidentify the timing), the miracle of their behavioural change makes them know that at some point they must have been “born again” (John 3:7). They might not even know these terms, but, if explained to them, they will identify with them. Salvation Examination Many other people who have believed in God and His Son, have ended up falling away. This is because they never fully understood. Instead, they believed in their own notion about God and His salvation. Consequently, they had never come to be justified by God and born again. Paul told the members of the Corinthian church, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" (2 Cor. 13:5). From his words, we can deduce that merely thinking that you’re in the faith is no real evidence of actually being in it. However, being spiritually joined to Christ, so that He lives within you, is Paul’s definition of whether or not someone is truly in the faith. Evidence of Salvation God’s word has a range of evidence that can help a person identify whether or not they been saved from spiritual death to eternal life. Here are just three of them: An inner witness. One evidence that you’re actually in the faith, with Christ dwelling within you, is an inner knowing. Paul writes, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" (Rom. 8:16). A supernaturally changed life. Another witness to true salvation is a supernaturally changed life. This is because Love Himself has joined Himself to that person. Jesus said, “. . . whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14). A witnessing life. There’s an overflow about God and His goodness that comes from the mouths of those who are saved. This is because God, and what He has done to save us, really is good news. After all, Jesus said, “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water” (John 7:38). Caveats Concerning Salvation Not all Christians excel in all of the above evidence. That said, to live their new life to the full, they ought to grow in each of them. Also, although the fruit of a person’s life is usually the clearest evidence of salvation (or the lack thereof), many loving, generous, and pleasant people are unsaved. Conversely, there are many saved folk who are caught up in selfishness, worldliness, and sin. Consequently, we don’t always know who has been saved, therefore, we must not simply assume that someone is or isn’t. On another note, not everyone who has been saved has understood that biblical faith gives assurance of salvation. Consequently, despite being justified by God, these folk may, at times, because of sin and feelings of unworthiness, feel unsaved. Assurance of Salvation God has gone to great lengths to lead people to a faith that saves and to assure them of their salvation. For example, the apostle John says in his gospel, ". . . these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name” (John 20:31). Then, in a letter to believers, John says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13). God clearly wanted people to believe and, having believed, be assured of their salvation. Assurance of one’s salvation is often found on the journey of discipleship. For, even after someone is saved, they will continue to receive revelation about their salvation. Consider what Paul had prayed for the Christians in Ephesus: “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe” (Eph. 1:17-19a). Are You Saved? All people have sinned against God, nevertheless, because of His great love for the world, He offers salvation as a free gift to everyone who repents and receives Jesus as Lord of their life. For He sent His Son, Jesus, to live a perfect life and take our sins upon Himself so that we could be acquitted. Having risen from the dead and ascended into heaven, Jesus offers mercy and new life to all who humble themselves and come to Him. Rob Morley March 31, 2021, Light and Life Bible Ministries. Scriptures here are KJV.

You are judging me by saying, "But, you continue to show your true character and intentions." God alone knows these. Has He made you privy to them? I don't mind being shown I'm wrong, but I don't care for your unChristlike behaviour. My issue is not with your email, btw. I simply disagreed with you as to the application of the rules, concerning which I have respect and have remained willing to make amends.

As I see it, if a member of the Corinthian church relocated to the church in Rome, he wouldn't have been re-baptised into that local body, for the local "the body of Christ" he was baptized into in Corinth is also part of the entire church Jesus came to build. Christ has one body, one bride, His church.

You're conflating the abusive accusational spirit of judgmentalism with robust confrontation that requires a godly form of judging. Again, Paul instructs us to admonish one another? (Rom. 15:14), and says "do not ye judge them that are within?" His hands would have been tied and unable to write much in epistles if he understood judging to only ever mean the judgmentalism that Jesus referred to.

For the record, this was my response to your private email: "I have no problem with the rules, however, I'm not breaking the rules when the context in which I use other translations requires me to do so. If, for example, I quote someone using a different translation it would be false to change it. It would also make no sense to consider another translation in order to better understand the KJV or the original by not quoting it." Firstly, you never responded to my email. Secondly, if I'm wrong in this regard, I would prefer a moderator to correct me. For if Baptists take different positions on the Bible, which they do, then so might moderators on interpreting the application of the rules of the site. Again, I never intentionallydid anything wrong as you continue to accuse me of. I don't need to remind you of where the spirit of accusation comes from, do I?

Being confronted by others who hold to different doctrines is not a problem. But I will admonish any Christian for unChristlike behaviour (Rom. 15:14 KJV), regardless of who they are, or whether or not they regard my teaching heretical.