Dr. Robert S. Morley

? I have watched his teaching from time to time, but not really anything on these issues. Apostles and pastors were given the authority to teach congregations.

Teaching is the primary role of a bishop/elder. Paul says that elders should be "apt to teach" (1 Tim. 3:2). He also speaks of elders/bishops "Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayer" (Titus 1:9). In Ephesians 4:11-12, Paul distinguishes apostles from prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. It is understood by many that "pastors and teachers" is one role. Paul personally tells Timothy, a church leader, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Tim 2:15). Peter says, "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder . . . : Feed the flock of God which is among you . . . And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Peter 5:1-2,4). Peter was similarly entrusted by Jesus to "Feed my lambs . . . Feed my sheep . . . feed my sheep" (John 21:15-17). He calls himself also an elder. He understood teaching was the primary way a pastor/shepherd is supposed to operate and passed that on. Soberingly, James 3:1 warns, "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment."

God's word does the designation of Andronicus or Junia, saying, "who are of note among the apostles" (Rom. 16:7 KJV). In the same way, it designates others as apostles outside of the twelve and Paul, namely, Barnabas (Acts 14:14), Apollos (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6), and possibly Timothy using the same verses. Agreed, imprisonment does not make them apostles. TGL asked what Junia had done in the faith. I mentioned her imprisonment in reply to that. Many get involved in noble Christian work, and some in multiple activities, still, Ephesians 4:11-12 distinguishes the work of certain roles, saying, "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." I wholeheartedly agree that our activities do not qualify us to wear every title.

Like most here, Scripture is my foundation. In my opinion, liberals are way off course and conservatives have a history of changing their minds and becoming more biblically correct.

? Peter says, "Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered" ( 1 Peter 3:7). It's an instruction to husbands about how they ought to treat their wives. The term "vessel" does not speak of spiritual or intellectual ability but of a wife's body. Concerning head coverings, Paul says, "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God" (1 Cor. 11:16).

Yes, clear passages are used to interpret the obscure. Here are some of the clear passages: Gen. 1:26–28 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Joel 2:2-29 - And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. Acts 2:17-18 - And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. Gal. 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 1 Cor. 14:36 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is obscure. Here it is from verse 8. “I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.” Paul addressed "men" and "women" in 1 Timothy 2:8-10. So why did he switch to referring to "the woman," “a woman,” and "the man" in verses 11-12? That is obscure and needs an answer before using it to negate all the clear verses. The word translated as "woman" (gynē) is also used for "wife." Is he only talking about "a woman" in a married relationship to "the man" (andros), a term also used for "husband"? What does "all" mean in, "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection"? Does "be in silence" mean "a woman" cannot speak at all? How do they prophesy? (See Acts 2:18). Can they participate in Paul’s instruction, “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord”? Why does Paul say, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression” when they were both “in the transgression." That too is obscure and needs an answer before applying any meaning to it. What does he mean by, "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety"? Yet, the way this passage gets interpreted by some negates Paul's exasperation in 1 Corinthians 14:36, God's original intention in Genesis 1:26-28, Joel's prophecy (Joel 2:2-29) that was confirmed by Peter (Acts 2:17-18), and Paul's clear statement about those IN Christ (Gal. 3:28). We shouldn't use the obscure as a basis of our doctrine.

The term "esteemed by" in your example is not equivalent to "of note among." Terms like "esteemed by" and "well known to" have a different meaning to "of note among". The term "among" denotes inclusiveness. The complementarian site, CBMW, says in their article, A Female Apostle?, "Paul praises them for standing out en tois apostolois[(among the apostles)], where the latter would be seen as their peer group or the backdrop from which the comparison is made." Importantly, the KJV chose to use "of note among."

Kinsmen means that they were related to Paul as family or fellow countrymen. Strong’s: Akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman. From sun and genos; a relative; by extension, a fellow countryman. Junia is a female name just as Dave is male. The male version of Junia is Junias, which some versions use. Both sides of the argument agree on this. In their article, Junia, a Female Apostle: An Examination of the Historical Record, the egalitarian site, CBE International, say, “Greek . . . Iounian . . . [refers] either to woman named Junia or to a man named Junias.” In its article, A Female Apostle?, the complementarian site, CBMW, says, “In order to evaluate the claim that Rom 16:7 refers to a female apostle named Junia, it is necessary to examine the name itself to determine if it is the feminine name Junia or the masculine name Junias.” Notes: The complementarian view holds that women should not hold church leadership roles that involve teaching or authority over men (Wiki). Christian egalitarians believe that the Bible mandates gender equality and equal responsibilities for the family unit and the ability for women to exercise spiritual authority as clergy (Wiki). I quoted all three verses you said I “conveniently neglect[ed],” namely, Acts 18:2, Acts 18:26, and 1 Cor. 16:19. I said, “By placing Priscilla's name ahead of her husband's in his later epistles, Paul appears to esteem her ahead of Aquila as a co-worker.” The texts are Rom. 16:3 and 2 Tim. 4:19. As for Luke, he may have simply kept to the custom of placing the male's name ahead of the female's. Yes, a husband is a male. “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach." However, “husband of one wife” is a strict marker, that would prohibit single men and widowers too, for they are not “the husband of one wife” either. This would exclude people like Paul. The passage goes on, "Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)” Does “having his children in subjection” imply elders must have children? Though Paul does not mention single men, widowers, childless married men, or women, he is in no way excluding them. 1 Timothy 3:1 reads, “This is a true saying, If a man (Gk. tis – anyone) desire the office of a bishop, he (not in Gk.) desireth a good work.” Paul uses a gender-neutral term again in 1 Timothy 3:5. “For if a man (Gk. tis –anyone) know not how to rule his (not in Gk.) own house, how shall he (not in Gk.) take care of the church of God?” 1 Timothy 3:1-7 gives the picture of a typical elder of his day. The moral issues are the markers, not gender, marital status, or family size.

A lot can be deduced from these few words Paul said: "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Rom. 16:7). With regard to ministry, Paul says that Andronicus and Junia were "fellowprisoners" of his. One can assume that their imprisonment might also have been for their faith. Paul also said that they "are of note among the apostles." Accordingly, Junia would have done the work of an apostle. Here are definitions of what an apostle does: Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Apostle: (Gk. apostolos [ajpovstolo"]). Envoy, ambassador, or messenger commissioned to carry out the instructions of the commissioning age[sic n]t. Strongs: From apostello; a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ. Not much more is said of them, except that they were "kinsmen" of Paul and "also were in Christ before him."

Good answer, Tony. Now, consider that a person sent by God as an apostle has been given the authority to teach.

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Rom 16:7). The name Junia is female. And, according to the KJV, Junia was an apostle. Besides the twelve and Paul, there were others who were called apostles. Those who are named are James, the Lord's brother (Gal. 1:19), Barnabas (Acts 14:14), Silvanus (Silas) and, possibly, Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1,2,:6) and Andronicus and Junia (Rom. 16:7).

Yes, you're right, they often aren't. To clarify, I use the word "appear" for commentary, when I know it's only right to offer room for other possible reasons, like for why Paul swapped the names around.

I can assure you I read everything.

You appear unaware that the terms complementarian and egalitarian are very commonly used in everyday commentary on this topic. They are helpful terms for discussion in that they carry a lot of meaning in a word.

Many churches and denominations have different doctrines from one another that are based on their interpretation of the Bible. They, consequently, consider these doctrines to be Bible-based. This is true of each of us here, too, who esteem God’s word above all else. We don't all agree on everything and yet we believe our doctrines are Bible-based.

Complementarian theology hinders people from experiencing so-called exceptions. Apollos is another man who was taught by a woman. In Acts, Luke writes, "[Paul] found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them "(Acts 18:2). Later, he writes, "And [Apollos] began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, THEY took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly" (Acts 18:26). Note that this couple both taught and shepherded Apollos. Paul mentions them in three letters. "The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house" (1 Cor. 16:19). "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 16:3). "Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus" (2 Tim. 4:19). By placing Priscilla's name ahead of her husband's in his later epistles, Paul appears to esteem her ahead of Aquila as a co-worker.

Let me echo Rick Warren's concern for the Baptists. As a Southern Baptist pastor with multi-generations of pastors in my family, my life has been shaped and nurtured by the SBC. I’m writing this open letter for two reasons: First, I’m deeply concerned about our denomination’s 17 years of decline and the loss of a half million members just last year. No denomination can sustain that kind of loss. Second, many have asked me to explain why Saddleback Church is appealing an Executive Committee ruling at our annual meeting in New Orleans in two weeks. The Southern Baptist Convention is a mosaic of many kinds of Baptist “tribes” who came together to cooperate on the Great Commission. We are general Baptists (the original founding Baptists of 1609), revival Baptists, fundamentalist Baptists, Calvinist Baptists and many other varieties of Baptists. From the start, our unity has always been based on a common mission, not a common confession. For the first 80 years of the SBC, we did not even have a confession because the founders were adamantly opposed to having one. (You can read the founding documents at www.sbcstand.com). They knew we never could get 100% of Baptists to agree 100% on 100% of every interpretation of Scripture. “They knew we never could get 100% of Baptists to agree 100% on 100% of every interpretation of Scripture.” That’s why every version of the Baptist Faith and Message has called itself a “consensus of opinion,” and it repeatedly warns us it is not a creed to be used to enforce doctrinal uniformity or exclude members of our denominational family. Your own family members often hold opposing opinions, but you don’t disown them for that. You still love them in spite of disagreements. “Consensus” means “generally agreed on.” It doesn’t mean “universally or unanimously agreed on.” For example, none of the messengers from our churches who voted against the changes made in the revised Baptist Faith and Message 2000 have been kicked out, even though they disagreed with some of the statements. That’s the Baptist way. We have never demanded every Baptist agree on every interpretation. In fact, for 178 years, Southern Baptists have agreed to disagree on dozens and dozens of doctrinal differences so we could cooperate for the gospel. The current ruling of the Executive Committee will open a Pandora’s box of unintended consequences unless we reject it. It will fundamentally destroy four historic Southern Baptist distinctives upon which the convention was organized by our founders. It will: Change the basis of our cooperation. Change the basis of our identity. Centralize power in the Executive Committee and take away autonomy from the churches. Turn our confession into a creed, which Baptists always have opposed. We all grew up with the slogan “We have no book but the Bible, and we have no creed but Christ!” Taken from the Baptist News Global article by Rick Warren, An open letter to all Southern Baptists.

I've shown by perfectly acceptable hermeneutics that nothing in God's word forbids female pastors and that the weight of scripture confirms that women can teach men and have authority equal them. I've also shown how the proof texts used against women pastors don't say what many think they do. The Spirit confirmed this then and He still does. For example, in his latest Tweet, Rick Warren writes: HYPOCRISY: The 2023 SBC will kick out churches for having a woman preach WHILE honoring Charles Stanley, SBC President who was saved through a WOMAN PREACHING! "As Mrs. Wilson preached,the Spirit struck me to the core! When she gave the invitation I was the first down" Stanley

"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (1 Tim. 2:13-14) are understood by complementarians as principal reasons why a woman cannot lead a man. But that belief is clearly incorrect as it contradicts how God's used Deborah as a judge and leader of Barak.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 are the go-to verses used to forbid women from teaching or having pastoral authority. It says, "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." However, 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?" Clearly, 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is not understood by complementarians.

Speaking of context, I changed the reference I asked for your comment on from 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 to 1 Corinthians 14:34-36, which is how I previously have it, because verse 36 is key to understanding Paul here.

If you look back, you will notice that I was responding to two different points. 1 Corinthians 1:34-36 was for your request for Scripture. It counters misunderstandings around equality in Christ and women being silent. The example of Deborah deals with the idea that women shouldn't lead men.

What does 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 mean to you? True but she was still a woman leading a man with God's word and changing her nation.

"And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets" (Heb. 11:32). I would happily follow a woman that God uses to lead me with His word and be considered among these men, just as Barak was directed by Deborah. Though he did not follow perfectly, nevertheless, he is included in this list for his obedience to God. Here's the account: "And [Deborah] sent and called Barak . . . and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh. And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him."

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?" (1 Cor. 14:34-36).